Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 22 Jun 2023 20:09:13 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241615#241615"]Locumming is not a licence to print money. To do it properly is hard, you have to be omnicompetent, tactful, get on with people, write good notes, be flexible, understanding etc. It's a skill.[/quote]

I tend to agree - personally I can't think of anything I'd be less inclined to do. That said, if you want to earn £425/day you need to turn over £~1,700 per day (before VAT) and I've NEVER had a locum achieve anywhere near that. I think that is my main resentment - if they did as well, or better, than me, I'd be happy.

As a business owner I pay locum rates to buy myself holiday or nights off when I can't swap or want the whole team off. I value the ability to walk away immensely, but it really doesn't even begin to cover the costs.

[quote userid="2457" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241599#241599"]Are full time experienced vets (the equivalent of someone who could ask for £425 as a locum) really working for £50K though? I was paying my employed vets that 10 years ago...[/quote]

Again the SPVS figures suggest that a vet needs to earn 4-5X fee income (before VAT) to justify salary. If my vets made me £200-250,000 in turnover I'd sure as hell be paying them £50,000 per year! I assume, 10 years ago, your vets had that level of fee earning?

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Sarah Keir — Tue, 20 Jun 2023 15:39:21 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/f/non-clinical-questions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241610#241610"]I'd say that if a professional locum can be comfortable financially, but spend 6 months a year rock-climbing or whatever (as is, of course, their right) then said locum is raking it in. [/quote]

Please show me these locums so I can learn their tricks and methods!

This is just not true in the current work force.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 21 May 2023 11:47:18 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241614#241614"]

Evelyn Barbour-Hill said:
Forgive my naiveté, but I'd say that if a professional locum can be comfortable financially, but spend 6 months a year rock-climbing or whatever (as is, of course, their right) then said locum is raking it in.

Not really.

In the past I have chosen to take 3 or 4 months a year off. never as much as 6 months, to pursue my interest in high altitude mountaineering. A lifestyle choice.

I have been very fortunate to have done the things I have done, but sometimes it has been a struggle financially, and I have often gone without other things and made sacrifices to pursue my interest. I spent very little on other luxuries such as cars, eating out, and didn't have a mortagage, any debts, or any financial dependents at the time.

[/quote]

Ditto

It's a lifestyle choice. If I wanted to make a lot of money, I would have been in the cohort of partners that have now sold.

We make choices in life. A good example was a radio 4 program on 'life changing' A chap who'd been stabbed, almost died but until that point had strived to get the latest car, big house etc. He's now changed totally, appreciating what he has. Over 20 years, I have taken maybe 2000 people all over the world.

Maybe I was at the front of 'lifestyle choices' I don't know, but I have had 3 partners last year look at me and tell me, they wished they'd done what I did. Sure I don't have the Bentley that I rode in a few weeks ago (terrified. I'd make it dirty) but what I won't have is that all too common thought that so many I meet say ....... 'When I retire, I will......'

Locumming is not a licence to print money. To do it properly is hard, you have to be omnicompetent, tactful, get on with people, write good notes, be flexible, understanding etc. It's a skill.

Neil

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 21 May 2023 11:29:04 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241610#241610"]Forgive my naiveté, but I'd say that if a professional locum can be comfortable financially, but spend 6 months a year rock-climbing or whatever (as is, of course, their right) then said locum is raking it in. [/quote]

Not really.

In the past I have chosen to take 3 or 4 months a year off. never as much as 6 months, to pursue my interest in high altitude mountaineering. A lifestyle choice.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 20 May 2023 17:08:09 GMT

[quote userid="9515" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241608#241608"]My article is trying to show why employees get much, much more than their headline salary yet seem to think that locums are raking it in.[/quote]

Forgive my naiveté, but I'd say that if a professional locum can be comfortable financially, but spend 6 months a year rock-climbing or whatever (as is, of course, their right) then said locum is raking it in.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 20 May 2023 15:00:45 GMT

[quote userid="9515" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241608#241608"]

I use numbers from the latest salary surveys available and yes sadly the average annual salary for vet is still only £50k. The references are in the article for you to check it out yourself.

My article is trying to show why employees get much, much more than their headline salary yet seem to think that locums are raking it in.

[/quote]

Interesting isn't it that we talk about a range for employees, but never for a locum.

I've always found it 'interesting' that a 2 year qualified can seemingly ask as much as a 20 year experienced locum

Neil

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Sarah Keir — Sat, 20 May 2023 14:15:23 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241599#241599"]Are full time experienced vets (the equivalent of someone who could ask for £425 as a locum) really working for £50K though? I was paying my employed vets that 10 years ago...[/quote]

I use numbers from the latest salary surveys available and yes sadly the average annual salary for vet is still only £50k. The references are in the article for you to check it out yourself.

My article is trying to show why employees get much, much more than their headline salary yet seem to think that locums are raking it in.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 19 May 2023 17:33:20 GMT

The group I am currently working for, owned by IVC, are advertising positions offering up to £63k plus add ons, no takers so far.

To even consider a full time employed position, I would start talking and taking it seriously at an offer of £100k.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 19 May 2023 17:27:04 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241595#241595"]In my case I cost the practice/company 5 - 10% more than an employed vet[/quote][quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241595#241595"] I could see the costs being much higher, but I don't think it would be double (unless I'm not charging enough)[/quote]

To be fair, that's what Sarah's calculation shows - because the employee is receiving a lot of benefits (I would query some of them) then even though the daily rate of the employed vet is nearly half that of the locum, the cost to the practice is similar. In her case, shes saying the daily rate of the employed vet is £236 on a 50k salary.

Are full time experienced vets (the equivalent of someone who could ask for £425 as a locum) really working for £50K though? I was paying my employed vets that 10 years ago...

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 19 May 2023 17:13:47 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241596#241596"]The calculation in the pretty detailed article was £425/day[/quote]

That's about right at the moment.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 19 May 2023 14:48:57 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241595#241595"]I work with them directly, with no agency involvement, and commute from home, therefore no additional costs to the practice. If they had to provide accommodation or an allowance to cover it, as well as agency fees, I could see the costs being much higher, but I don't think it would be double (unless I'm not charging enough)[/quote]

The calculation in the pretty detailed article was £425/day

Neil

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 19 May 2023 14:09:19 GMT

In my case I cost the practice/company 5 - 10% more than an employed vet

I am working with an employed vet at the moment who is paid the higher end of currently advertised salaries. They work a full time, 4 day, 40 hour week, with no weekend or OOH work. They receive 6 weeks annual holiday plus bank holidays, and a day off for their birthday. It works out at around 175 days per year. If I work the same number of days, and once employer's NIC, professional and VDS fees, CPD, private health cover etc are all factored in the difference is between 5 and 10%.

I work with them directly, with no agency involvement, and commute from home, therefore no additional costs to the practice. If they had to provide accommodation or an allowance to cover it, as well as agency fees, I could see the costs being much higher, but I don't think it would be double (unless I'm not charging enough)

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Nicola Cole — Thu, 18 May 2023 21:08:39 GMT

[quote userid="9515" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241577#241577"]Double, to account for additional costs that the locum foots rather than the employer of an employee.[/quote]

I’m sorry, but I have to wholeheartedly disagree with this comment and I think comments and expectations like this could help to give ‘locums’ a bad name.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 17 May 2023 15:34:43 GMT

Some of your assumptions and estimates in your calculations are arguable.

For example, the fact that locums are not paid during holidays is completely irrelevant to what the practice pays a locum . You're right that the annual salary of a locum is affected, but trying to somehow 'top up' your income by charging enough to account for holidays is nonsensical. One locum may take 5 weeks off, another takes 6 months off. The benefit of being a locum is that flexibility - but with it comes the 'hit' of unpaid time that employees don't take.

Also, when looking at how much take home pay a locum gets, you seem to compare them as if the actual cost to the practice is similar? Or have I misunderstood? The practice may indeed be happy to pay a higher rate for locums for many reasons, including the fact that they have less NI contributions, that they're not having to pay a vet all year just to cover staff holidays etc, and no uniform, professional subscriptions etc to pay - but the extra mileage, accountant fees, unpaid admin time etc are the locum's sole responsibility. These are not things the practice are 'saving' by employing a locum.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Sarah Keir — Tue, 16 May 2023 18:31:24 GMT

[quote userid="3222" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241565#241565"] often offer a room with one of the staff or the clinical director, cause everyone had a guestroom or something[/quote]

Locums are professionals and often prefer to have their own space that is quiet, clean, has cooking facilities. The shared flat about a practice is just not it any more.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Sarah Keir — Tue, 16 May 2023 18:28:42 GMT

[quote userid="3222" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241554#241554"]my new agency..[/quote]

The UK market is saturated with agencies and new ones pop up every week.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Sarah Keir — Tue, 16 May 2023 18:26:57 GMT

[quote userid="3222" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model"]how much more should a locum vet expect to earn compared to an emplyed vet , like 30% more?[/quote]

Double, to account for additional costs that the locum foots rather than the employer of an employee.

This article will explain it better. https://www.sarahthevet.com/2023/05/08/the-true-costs-of-locums-vs-employees/

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 15 May 2023 11:44:46 GMT

Years ago, locum placements used to be for a couple of weeks to cover a holiday or extended sick leave. Various accommodation was owned by the practice for staff, and was usually made available for the locum. In my case, they often stayed at my house while i was on holiday. In my experience, most locum placements these days are either just days here and there or a long term ongoing job. Many practices no longer own any buildings or accommodation for staff. It would be very unusual for a practice to offer accommodation, so any cost allowance for this would have to be negotiated.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Stigen — Mon, 15 May 2023 10:48:41 GMT

How do you do about accomodation for short term placements ? I remember when I was doing it a long time ago the practices would often offer a room with one of the staff or the clinical director, cause everyone had a guestroom or something. Airbnb would be excessively expensive for a short term locum. Are the recruitment agencies responsible for fixing accomodation, or do the practices have to arrange (and pay) for that?

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Stigen — Mon, 15 May 2023 10:45:47 GMT

I know what you mean. I last worked in the Uk in 2011, and I still get daily locum requests from a number of these agencies, even though I cancelled it 10 years ago.

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 15 May 2023 09:19:21 GMT

[quote userid="3222" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241553#241553"]So locum agencies are looked down upon by the community ? Cause practices feel they have to pay too much, or too large commissions?[/quote]

My issue with many of them is the continuous spam even when asked to stop emailing. Also completely bonkers and out of touch requests like the 75.000/year no ops vet who wanted to work 1 day a week.

Why are they wasting my time?

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 14 May 2023 20:00:56 GMT

There are good and poor locum agencies

I found work through locumotive who place vets in the Bristol area. The owner is a vet and she knows the practices and the locums. To the practice, they know that they will get a locum that will suit their requirements. To the locum they are offered the job and if they want it, it's their's, no messing about (provided you reply in good time) It works really well

The worst are those that pretend they have a zillion locums , all of whom can do everything, but in reality can be any standard. To the locum they mess you around 'Oh we no longer have that job', or, 'we'll ask the practice' or 'would you do this one instead'.

For £40/day for a placement, things should be better. In the latter case, yes the shark is applicable

Neil

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 13 May 2023 23:15:40 GMT

I have no problem paying a reasonable fee to a company to provide a service that sorts a problem I have. A problem that I cannot sort myself. Almost a year ago I dislocated my wrist and had surgery and a cast and could really have done with a locum. Contacted a number of agencies and they had nothing.

I have the ability myself to find locums for planned holidays etc, not sure what role they really have here. Much like recruitment agencies - money for nothing.

But then I service my own car......

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Stigen — Sat, 13 May 2023 21:54:11 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30653/can-anyone-explain-the-locum-agency-business-model/241550#241550"]

And a fourth, which is to source the work yourself and not use an agency at all. There's lots of work and too few vets, so not hard to find.

That said, I have in the past found some very good work through agencies. There are 2 practices I have been returning to annually for nearly 20 years, originally introduce by an agency.

[/quote]

That is what I am currently doing...but I think it would be more effective, and greater selection if there was a compilation fo offers from various clinics through an agency...my new agency..

RE: Can anyone explain the locum agency business model?

Stigen — Sat, 13 May 2023 21:52:34 GMT

So locum agencies are looked down upon by the community ? Cause practices feel they have to pay too much, or too large commissions?