What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

cairncross — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 19:48:11 GMT

Sorry pea should edit more

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 19:16:36 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated/240359#240359"]pee and ham soup[/quote]

That’ll turn anyone vegetarian!

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 10:22:52 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated/240356#240356"]

TIME

where can we save time

[/quote]

Brilliant.

And actually, ties in nicely with these wise words.

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated/240332#240332"]Perhaps we need to break it down into far more manageable chunks.[/quote]

I was hoping that I'd be launching myself into 2023 with huge gusto, looking out upon a beautiful sunny day. But no. I seem to have picked up that post pandemic cold that's going around and the weather is miserable and forecast to stay that way for days.

So I've been sitting here feeling like death warmed up, thinking perhaps I should just go back to bed, and maybe try and start the year again next Monday.

But no, cairncross - that gives me something to get my teeth stuck into, so thanks for that!

and Richard Carter, I think this ...

[quote userid="2675" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated/240338#240338"]Do we consider following the medics and have a formal’houseman’ training to transition from academic to practical before getting a MRCVS because I don’t think any lectures ever get the reality of having a disaster in front of you and you are it.[/quote]

could also be a really good subject for an article looking at the costs and benefits.

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated/240333#240333"] 'Should vegetarianism/veganism be the natural default position for veterinary surgeons'.[/quote]

Not sure that this lends itself to an article, but for sure, an interesting topic for debate ... I think worth starting a tangent, which I will do now.

A Happy New Year everyone, albeit a bit of a soggy one.

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

cairncross — Tue, 03 Jan 2023 08:23:37 GMT

Probably enough rules already without imposing what we eat next?

Over Christmas I was given by clients a Turkey , a pigs knee ( made delicious pee and ham soup )some venison , 2 pheasants ,eggs , 2 woodcock , 3 different fish .My understanding is that the locally produced slaughtered/shot meat is as ethical a protein source as I can get. It hasn't been transported hundreds of miles dead or alive Vast tracks of permanent grassland as a carbon sink hasn't been ploughed up to produce it , sentient wildlife hasn't been mechanically killed and injured sprayed or displaced to produce it . The turkey will have had some commercial feed but even this will have been byproduct . The figures often quoted that 70/80% of farmland is used to feed livestock is misused. 70 or 80 percent of the crop grown is unusable or unpalatable for humans, husks stems the cake left when soya is pressed to extract what humans can consume so we feed that 70 or 80 % to livestock and then recycle it into usable protein.

I dont think we should encourage a binary position , vegan isn't animal welfare consequence free at all , we should encourage minimal waste eg the pigs knee, local production to minimise transport . I care about welfare and the environment so I actively avoid products marketed as vegan vegetarian but I don't think others should be pressured into this stance.

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

cairncross — Mon, 02 Jan 2023 19:29:57 GMT

TIME

where can we save time

With an ever deepening workforce crisis , with ever fewer willing or able to work full time or ooh which is most of the time . With ever increasing Regulation and instruction taking up hour after hour cpd gdp , referal paperwork insurance paper work

When we have 28 or 29 k vets looking after 250 million owned animals . Where do we save time ? This surely has to be the most critical point in the profession WE DO not have enough TIME , we don't need more equipment more drugs more tools more controls we have less sbd less time to use what we have , sure they could improve things for a select few but at tgecexpense of the great many.

Every new article technique treatment protocol seems to take up vastly more time than "the old ways" , they may be better ( maybe not according to much recent discussion on outcomes) but they nearly always take up more time . Which we haven't got as a profession.

What can we do to release time back to the profession . Certainly individuals can get free time by going part time , locuming taking career breaks moving in to specialists where the caseload is reduced but this puts more time pressure on those left .

What can we do to save time , what treatments protocols can we learn that save time, what preventative measures to prevent cases arising ? Should certain breeds be banned to reduce workload, should certain time resource expensive procedures be banned.

We quite rightly ban ear cropping to prevent suffering should we ban procedures which result in many hours of vet work and time causing the animal days and hours of hospitalisation and instead free up vet time which could be spent relieving suffering to a much greater number of cases that currently cannot get treatment due to expense or availability.

This is not radical change its logical change , where and how Is or time best spent to do most good. This will also be sustainable people will want to look after their animals and people will want to eat.

People are currently dying in significant numbers daily waiting as the NHS has it seems failed to organise itself , its probably not going to be fixed either as its too difficult for individuals .

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

bob lehner — Fri, 30 Dec 2022 16:05:27 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated/240342#240342"]

Why? On what basis?

I eat meat, and really enjoy it, and no plans to give it up.

[/quote]

Tha't fine - I was only suggesting it as an interesting topic for a future debate.

People have different views...I don't eat meat and would not enjoy it, and no plans to take it up.

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 30 Dec 2022 13:54:12 GMT

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated/240333#240333"]So, I'd suggest an interesting topic for debate - 'Should vegetarianism/veganism be the natural default position for veterinary surgeons'.[/quote]

Why? On what basis?

I eat meat, and really enjoy it, and no plans to give it up.

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

Richard Carter — Fri, 30 Dec 2022 12:01:02 GMT

Do we consider following the medics and have a formal’houseman’ training to transition from academic to practical before getting a MRCVS because I don’t think any lectures ever get the reality of having a disaster in front of you and you are it.

The learning curve is really horrible and for some it is a flat wall they hit very hard leaving quite a lot of damage.

It also doesn’t help when the rules ( or fear) are getting more prescriptive and coming at you from the profession, the vds, the other government agencies. Even the insurance industry now feels to be antagonistic and you have to fight your corner or just capitulate so you lose the fun

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

Richard Carter — Fri, 30 Dec 2022 11:50:01 GMT

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated/240333#240333"]Should vegetarianism/veganism be the natural default position for veterinary surgeons'[/quote]

Why? The profession started out to advance the livestock industry to have healthy food! Like a steak..

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

bob lehner — Fri, 30 Dec 2022 11:17:18 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30526/what-things-in-the-veterinary-profession-do-you-think-should-be-investigated"]What do you think? Any thoughts for things you think need to be looked at and reported on. Could be anything - clinical or not[/quote]

I read this article the other day -https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2022/dec/28/benjamin-zephaniah-tell-people-i-dont-eat-animals-thing-ill-do-differently

He eruditely expresses my own personal position on this subject.

So, I'd suggest an interesting topic for debate - 'Should vegetarianism/veganism be the natural default position for veterinary surgeons'.

Should generate plenty of differing opinions - I can already hear the galloping hooves coming from Yorkshire...!

RE: What things in the veterinary profession do you think should be investigated?

Bob Russell — Fri, 30 Dec 2022 10:04:31 GMT

No specific suggestions but the RCVS has failed miserably to produce anything of value with regard to retaining vets in the profession.

Pages of 'be nice to each other', 'watch out for your colleagues' etc etc are hopeless and will do nothing to change the profession.

I have no doubts this was all done in good faith but so much is outside the control of those in the profession that it is unlikely to achieve anything in my opinion.

Perhaps we need to break it down into far more manageable chunks. How can we support new graduates in their first jobs. Can we influence the powers that be to try to encourage students that are more likely to work full time? Should the colleges be taking so many overseas students?

I have never supported unions in the profession but perhaps this is the time to have a rethink?

I don't have answers, not even really the right questions but someone else may have! The profession (like others) appears to be heading off a cliff.