Vets Going Digital

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 23:18:21 GMT

I think ( don't know as no experience) if the finance company eg Klarna tried to chase the client or charge what they feel are unfair or unwelcome penalties they tgr client may take the angst out on the vet , possibly complain that the treatment didn't work was too expensive in 1st place. . Unlike most online purchases a new coat a frying pan etc from some anonymous warehouse somewhere in world we are a physical presence they can actually approach.

As far as i cam see these buy now default later payment companies are in decline in terms of their actual value The business model isn't so suited to these hard times they worked when their loans to cover their debt were very near zero so they could charge zero and make profit on those who defaulted a few tomes but eventually paid.

I think if we are to be a long term part of the community we should be a responsible part of it , not exploiting people's emotions at 3 am and getting them into debt they can't pay ( the buy now default later model is exempt from responsible lending and affordability rules as I understand as they do not "lend" technically they offer a prolonged payment handling process. I genuinely think business survival shouldn't be about the short term harvesting of limited funds , like this or emptying the insurance budget at first opertunity to sustain a high cost service for the short term.

RE: Vets Going Digital

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 17:27:24 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239955#239955"]Might be ok for online retail but when they play hardball I think we the physicsl vet would be the actual target for angst[/quote]

Not sure I understand. When who plays hardball, and angst from whom? I'm presuming that when it comes to hardball, the whole point is that it's between klarna and the client, and it's klarna that would be on the receiving end of any angst ... ie it should take it off your shoulders.

I must say, if I were running a business in these hard times, I would definitely look at using something like klarna ... depending on how much of a fee there was (assuming it is charged to me, not the client)

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 15:09:45 GMT

I think more than 1 of the chief execs of big corporates are on record about capitalising on this emotional attachment.

I looked up the klarna thing it seems they don't charge interest but operate as a sort of prolonged payments handling set up that makes its money on the default fees . Might be ok for online retail but when they play hardball I think we the physicsl vet would be the actual target for angst

RE: Vets Going Digital

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 17 Nov 2022 12:28:04 GMT

In other digital vetting news:

https://www.vetsurgeon.org/news/b/veterinary-news/posts/and-now-an-app-that-vets-can-offer-remote-consultations-on

I couldn't help myself. Especially when the press release started talking about 'pet parents' when I didn't have a chunder bucket to hand.

RE: Vets Going Digital

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 11 Nov 2022 12:24:14 GMT

[deleted]

RE: Vets Going Digital

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 16:42:14 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239897#239897"]So we are not just competing with each other and different approaches but someone eating a testicle on the other side of the world![/quote]

Priceless, you really cheered up my afternoon with that one. Thank you!

RE: Vets Going Digital

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 16:36:24 GMT

brilliant!

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 16:22:10 GMT

Just now 4pm answered the phone myself client doesnt want to come to open clinic due to q as u say not everyone likes these. Wants appoint for what sounds like nasty eye condition before 5pm as "she has kids lunches and T to make before I'm a celebrity starts " So we are not just competing with each other and different approaches but someone eating a testicle on the other side of the world!

RE: Vets Going Digital

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 14:32:17 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239894#239894"]That's maybe one way around this - don't allow them to schedule themselves in the next 48 hours, so ring up for sick pets and urgents[/quote]

Absolutely - I don't think this is an either/or situation. The phone line should always be available, but there doesn't seem to be any reason not to have a percentage of each day's appointments available for automatic booking of boosters/rechecks/phone calls etc?

I'd also love to see automatic ordering of repeat meds where the client orders online directly onto our PMS - so the computer system simply needs to get the vet's authorisation and can do the rest on its own. I hate doing the repeat prescription list- but it would be vastly quicker if I didn't have to find the record, find the animal, find the drug and dose and then process a new transaction. Obviously the particular med would have had to be made available for rpt prescriptions by the vet in the first place. But I can dream...

RE: Vets Going Digital

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 13:02:58 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239887#239887"]There are many occasions when people would rather schedule an appointment, and aren't looking to get one the same day. [/quote]

That's maybe one way around this - don't allow them to schedule themselves in the next 48 hours, so ring up for sick pets and urgents

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 12:32:31 GMT

I don't think we disagree that much I think it all has its place I just think that trying to mix the two is complicated and we are at risk of falling between two stools . I don't have the skills for the virtual stuff so I am probably prejudiced against it I did try and was not at all comfortable.

RE: Vets Going Digital

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 11:02:22 GMT

Yep, it will be

RE: Vets Going Digital

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 11:01:10 GMT

Arlo - will the meeting be recorded? Unfortunately I am already busy tomorrow night at an AGM.

RE: Vets Going Digital

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 10:37:27 GMT

I realise these are your opinions based on your own experiences and client base, but that probably isn't true of every situation.

There are many occasions when people would rather schedule an appointment, and aren't looking to get one the same day. There are also people who want the reassurance of a chat about their pet and its problems - or be told it really should be seen at the practice, as scheduling a vet visit is much trickier than scheduling a call/zoom chat. They are happy to pay for this service.

I think the difference between you and I is that I see 'going digital' as a way to improve things, whereas you see it as increasing problems for you. I guess the only way to know would be to 'suck it and see'.

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239884#239884"] the vets who want to work in a small independent practise don't want corporate style duties[/quote]

I genuinely don't understand this idea. What are 'corporate style duties'?

In my experience, working for a corporate brings a better working rota and job conditions than many of the independent practices I've locumed for. They often work hard to provide a good working environment. As with all practices, it all comes down to the leadership team at each individual practice, not the branding on the front.

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Wed, 09 Nov 2022 07:44:10 GMT

Once people have developed a concern about their pet what they want is to see a vet NOW . The virtual option has developed out of this demand existing. Me and my staff are already working long hours I am not going to add those duties nor am I going to be able to recruit for this as

A there will be even less vets around for the next 10 years

B the vets who want to work in a small independent practise don't want corporate style duties

C the economy of scale demand wouldn't make it economic

What people want is to see a vet now they don't actually want an appointment tomorrow or next week . Open clinics provide this for the client until the q is too long . This can be managed for staff mine know they will have 2 indefinitely late finishes per week which will impact their lifestyle but they also know they will have 3 afternoon finishes .

I have a concern that this move to virtual digital is going to end the haphazard flexible approach of our receptionists answering calls texts etc about concerns . These are going to have to be formalised and qualified input be recorded and various disclaimers be formally issued , it probably already should but the days of a vet giving answers to a receptionist whilst operating are probably over.

Vets are in finite diminishing supply for every competitor practise or vet who moves their time over to virtual supply it will leave less competition for those offering physical.

The local town has several businesses for which there are alternate options online offering cheaper and greater variety but they are successful as they can offer the physical on a walk in basis when that is needed. For some everything they offer is online we are lucky that much of what we offer is actually physical.

GP DR friend who is involved in the debate around its crisis has said that if GP practise is to have any future it will be a private walk in service.

RE: Vets Going Digital

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 23:25:28 GMT

It really isn't about having staff answering phones in Delhi!

It may just be setting up a system that can have a few appointments every day that can be booked online, or having a receptionist keeping an eye on the live chat box. Or offering post op online or phone conversations rather than appointments. (My current practice is already doing this - it works great!)

You may say '1 or 2 big corporates will corner that market' - but if that happens then it's because there is a genuine need for it by clients. Smaller independents can't then complain that their work is disappearing.

There will always be businesses who feel that they are using a business model that is 'the ideal', yet they fail because they aren't providing what their client actually wants.

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239879#239879"]Those businesses who are not getting calls answered or rushing people are not short of work or demand. [/quote]

Absolutely. But if an alternative arrives, or they can avoid having to use the perceived poor service, then they will look elsewhere. Loyalty only goes so far.

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 18:27:52 GMT

I can't see me having staff in call centres in Denver Dehli and Durban to maintain a 24 7 chat online service. 1 or 2 big corporates will corner that market.

Those businesses who are not getting calls answered or rushing people are not short of work or demand.

RE: Vets Going Digital

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 18:06:38 GMT

[quote userid="9239" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239875#239875"]I am not convinced that this is the case Gillian. Many businesses will not and can not be digital but if your margins are very small and you need to check every penny then yes, going digital is the only option. [/quote]

If I have the option of making an enquiry or booking something online, I do. I can do that in my own time, with my calendar to hand. Making a phone call to a business is always a last resort. Therefore, practices who continue to insist all interactions are done in person or on the phone may find they struggle to compete with those who make interactions more 'user friendly'.

(Am I the only one who loves a good 'live chat' option on company websites? )

[quote userid="9239" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239875#239875"]. Most pet owners are middle age to older folk not young[/quote]

Lol...I'm middle aged! And some 'older folk' may be luddites, but we're talking about progress ... I'll be 'older folk' in due course...

[quote userid="9239" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239875#239875"]There is no such thing in most veterinary practices. Might be a hold on for a minute but not the rest. [/quote]

Not having your call picked up, or feeling rushed, is even worse than 'press 1 for...'

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 18:02:14 GMT

I think you can certainly do as good or better clinical job without relationship with client as you say there are no presumptions and a fresh eye . I sometimes ask a client who wants to see me with a case I am stuck with to see one of the other vets for this very reason.

I don't see that becoming digital is a pre requisite for survival at all . I think it may be more a matter of being one thing or the other a high tech virtual platform or an old fashioned in person service.

Certainly there is a market for telemedicine in the evening when people come home and worry after supper . This I think is already driving some in the direction of our open clinic in am People get message from online saying need to see physical vet, most appoint based vets unlikely to have slot available at 9.30 am or even that day so they end up in our q having it reinforced that they need to see a vet.

There are lots of businesses in local town which have made a virtue of not offering the corporatised online model that can't compete at all with the multinationals

Local little bike shop went online huge success employed large numbers locally owner sold it for fortune to multinational they moved jobs to Eastern Europe now no local bike shop or jobs. People maybe can get their flea to or lexicon online dispatched from Finchley to Feramanagh and prescribed from Saskatoon, but they can't get a spay or drip online

RE: Vets Going Digital

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 16:40:16 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239873#239873"]As far as 'going digital' I can't see that there's even a conversation about 'whether to'. Not to do so will eventually be terminal to any business, and vet practices are no exception. [/quote]

I am not convinced that this is the case Gillian. Many businesses will not and can not be digital but if your margins are very small and you need to check every penny then yes, going digital is the only option. I have a feeling that it might become more difficult to be digital in the future if drugs end up being sold mainly through online pharmacies, then the real money will be made from selling yourself. Not so easy online.

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239873#239873"]There is such a lot of resistance to online booking because of perceived problems, yet many of those same problems happen now[/quote]

Maybe that's why there is resistance. If things are difficult to manage under these circumstances adding technology doesn't automatically makes it better. Most pet owners are middle age to older folk not young.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239874#239874"]That was precisely my thinking. Booking online involves no interminable wait on hold, no '...press option 237 for accounts, press option 238 for appointments', etc etc and so it removes a negative aspect of the interaction.[/quote]

There is no such thing in most veterinary practices. Might be a hold on for a minute but not the rest.

RE: Vets Going Digital

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 13:12:27 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239873#239873"] If people are booking their boosters etc online, then the receptionist will have more time to chat to them![/quote]

That was precisely my thinking. Booking online involves no interminable wait on hold, no '...press option 237 for accounts, press option 238 for appointments', etc etc and so it removes a negative aspect of the interaction.

Instead, the receptionist is freed up to chat/ask me if I'd like a cup of coffee while I wait, which makes me think 'wow, what a great practice'.

RE: Vets Going Digital

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 13:02:17 GMT

As a locum, I rarely build any kind of long term relationship - but although I was concerned this would be a negative thing, I've found it actually works well in many cases.

I get to look at every case with fresh eyes - and it's remarkable how much that helps with some chronic cases. I don't assume how much the client wants to pay - which I think is essential no matter how long you've known them. And I don't have to try to be 'friends' - brutal honesty is much easier (your dog is fat/suffering/a PITA behaviourally)!!!

Case continuity certainly helps in many situations, but I don't think it is essential for a good level of care to be provided. It matters far more that each consultation provides what the CLIENT wants it to provide.

As far as 'going digital' I can't see that there's even a conversation about 'whether to'. Not to do so will eventually be terminal to any business, and vet practices are no exception. The only question should be how to do it whilst maintaining staff satisfaction in the job and client satisfaction with the service.

For example, booking appointments by phone seems to me to be an archaic practice. It is massively inefficient. There is such a lot of resistance to online booking because of perceived problems, yet many of those same problems happen now! I think Michael mentioned people booking in a PTS at the wrong time - yet we all have 'normal' appointments that become a PTS, yet we manage. And a message can easily be put on the online booking system saying 'please contact the surgery if you wish to discuss booking a euthanasia appointment'. If people are booking their boosters etc online, then the receptionist will have more time to chat to them!

RE: Vets Going Digital

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 09:15:08 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239871#239871"]

Arlo Guthrie said:
I always find the 'same vet' thing hard to understand. I don't mind which vet I see, unless it is for a chronic condition where the continuity of care is important.

[/quote]

I can see that, but for me, the visits are not that frequent that there is any opportunity to build a relationship.

Let's say we saw the vet once a year, which would sometimes be my wife and sometimes me. So I don't see the vet even annually. There is zero chance therefore of building any kind of relationship. I can't remember the name of the vet I last had a consultation with any more than I can remember the name of the person in the Hilfiger shop with whom I had a similar length interaction more than a year ago. And I very much doubt they would remember me!

Which is why I think relationships can only really be built with a subset of clients with lots of animals, or chronically sick animals, or lots of chronically sick animals, who you see at least a few times a year.

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 06:08:47 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30476/vets-going-digital/239831#239831"]I always find the 'same vet' thing hard to understand. I don't mind which vet I see, unless it is for a chronic condition where the continuity of care is important. [/quote]

No an established relationship definitely helps both parties long term over all the conditions new and old. Trust builds up both ways, you get to know what clients are capable of in terms of managing treatments and finance, how perceptive or truthfully they are when describing symptoms or making a case for an emergency appointment . You are not going to suggest a 1000 pound treatment and embarrass or make a client whom.you know can only afford 40 pounds feel guilty. Clients with mental health issues that initually seem odd to the new vet or medical disabilities don't have to explain their situation over and over. Even little things like knowing Mrs Johnstons son plays rugby for the local team , you can ask about the match which a distracts her and goves you time to think about the condition or palpate b pleases Mrs Johnston as she is proud of her son and makes the consult and interaction a happy one for her . At some point in a vet client relationship something will go wrong a wound will get infected we will msje a wrong decision on bslenxe of probabilities , if you have had a few years of getting things right for a client this balence of experience helps helps. I am quite sure lots of people don't like my approach and methods and they don't come back , which is good for both of us .

There are decent studies in human medicine and I am involved in one at QUB which show how this integrated community approach to health care provides better outcomes and satisfaction than new expensive treatments or technologies .

RE: Vets Going Digital

cairncross — Tue, 08 Nov 2022 05:37:42 GMT

In Human medicine surveys and time motion studies show that DRS and Nurses spend 50% plus of their time interacting with digital technology to meet paperwork requirements. The IT spend on this technology seems to be somewhere between half and 1 billion annually in NHS . They have 70m people to manage we have 250m .

Once it is availible this digital tech becomes obligatory to be used in order that management can monitor all aspects of vets performance sales targets , regulatory bodies can monitor that we record everything they demand . 3 GP friends have quit because of this in the last 2 years they were quite literally locking themselves in a room furiously typing whilst ill patients were banging on doors and windows trying to get seen. A 2 to 3 minute patient interaction would take 20 min of paperwork time. My wife and kids GP practise is closing next month , at mine you can go and witness the people banging on doors any morning you choose .

A friend has just handed in her notice at a new vet job at the end of the probation period due to being challenged over statistics on petty matters.( petty in terms of patient care but prob not for management who have targets from above

Remember the Ted talks video with the lady explaining how a vets day goes with continual distractions. I cannot see how technology takes any of these away they are just a further layer but one which is recoded time stamped for ever if someone makes a complaint 2 years down the line and it's discovered you forgot to record an antibiotic dose this will be flagged and used against you whilst all the other multitude of matters pulling you apart at the time are non existant in in the digital ether. , what we maybe need is a body cam which would record all the concurrent emergencies or a veterinary digital tachograph to record the amount of time we get to eat sleep or integrate with family?

If someone sends an image or a video file we can quickly look at it and nearly always decide we need to see this bring it in.

In a facetime consult we are dealing with an animal which won't stay still , where establishing which limb is right and left as understood by owners can be time consuming animals wander off around the home under tables into dark corners with a Blair witch camera operator in pursuit. Clients in frustration grab pull and pin down animals and can get bit.

One of the commonest Derm findings is a yeasty smell , , you can't see inside ear canals or between toes the most common places for skin findings , if it is a skin lump you really want to palpate its density, is it fluid filled or solid is the outline or boundary irregular or smooth is it very integrated to surrounding tissue or loose and mobile . The degree of each of these with experience forms a big part of the decision process.. very often clients point out an obvious patch of scab on the coat but are very surprised when you feel the skin below the coat snd point out how thickened or scabbed over a wide area it actually is. Many pos majority of skin cases that can afford referal need blood sample for hormonal snd allergy testing .