Rishi Sunak, the PM

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Rob Loxley — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 20:15:16 GMT

[quote userid="8182" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239992#239992"]careful consideration of optics[/quote]

Braverman, Williamson, Raab: how do they appear to the man in the street?

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Eamon McAllister — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 16:57:50 GMT

We have an intelligent man with experience in government and careful consideration of optics. A man who cannot be persuaded by money as he has it already. Brexiteer and Tory. Qualities that I find difficult to swallow. Nevertheless, the best option given what's coming next.

He's a disaster capitalist who made his money out of the misery of millions in the 2008 crash. The likes of him never have enough money. He might in a literal sense be sober/teetotal but he's got his sights firmly on privatising the NHS, and shrinking the state to nothing, like the rest of the Ayn Randian lunatics in this rancid iteration of the Conservative Party. Please stop pitching him as some kind of reasonable moderate - he really isn't, he's just a more focused Johnson/Truss hybrid.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Richard Carter — Thu, 24 Nov 2022 15:00:30 GMT

According to Neil Oliver, archeologist, and now GB news presenter (!) it is intended to take away any independence and keep you poor and compliant

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 17:39:33 GMT

[quote userid="2675" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239974#239974"]The hysteria over interest rates going above 4%- well they were always around 5% or more when I was growing up[/quote]

Gosh, you must still be a young lad. Back when I was buying my first house they were running at 17%!

But yes, I hadn't really thought of that: you really didnt borrow any more than you had to in those days, which was a good thing.

[quote userid="2675" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239974#239974"]The entire thing is an artificial creation between the producers and the retail where the retail is ‘obliged’ to purchase at an international rate even when they often the same company and (according to their own advertising blurb) have 40-50% production from renewables which wasn’t affected by a crazy Russian.[/quote]

I've never quite understood that (the artificial creation). There must be a reason for it.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Richard Carter — Tue, 22 Nov 2022 09:40:39 GMT

The U.K. and others have behaved like teenagers with credit cards and maxed them all. Austerity as a cutback of government spending has to happen but that doesn’t mean the general economy needs to be curtailed as well.

The hysteria over interest rates going above 4%- well they were always around 5% or more when I was growing up- it meant savings worked, businesses borrowed responsibly and you used credit as emergency, not lifestyle.

Hopefully it starts to reduce that gap of the super elites and mega businesses that could borrow at zero but sell to the consumer at 10% because the’common’ people could never get that rate.

As for the scam currently being run about energy costs and the government buying into and supporting it is just disgusting. The entire thing is an artificial creation between the producers and the retail where the retail is ‘obliged’ to purchase at an international rate even when they often the same company and (according to their own advertising blurb) have 40-50% production from renewables which wasn’t affected by a crazy Russian. 8-9 billion profits per quarter- well make sure the windfall goes into government coffers and not the clients…

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 21 Nov 2022 08:21:03 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239967#239967"]But then that’s politics - many of these are Tory voters.[/quote]

I think the point is that many of them are voters full stop.

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239967#239967"]The younger gens not only priced out of many things (not least property) but paying for their education and now being taxed more and more yet again are sacrificing for the elderly. [/quote]

It's awful, isn't it. But surely the young are going to wake up to this at some point and take to the streets. I wish they'd hurry up.

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239967#239967"]I can’t see and haven’t heard a viable alternative to raising taxes[/quote]

Nor can can I. Some people seem to argue that we should defer the bill yet more. But meantime, the country has an eye-watering interest bill to pay, all of which could be spent on better public services.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

David Mills — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 19:37:25 GMT

It was always going to be thus, I’m amazed people are surprised or think there’s any other way out of this.

The govt gave away money during the pandemic whilst they shut the country down, wrongly in my view, to protect a section of society who will not be involved in paying that money back - quite the opposite OAPs have had an inflation matching increase as well as a wedge higher than most others towards energy bills.

But then that’s politics - many of these are Tory voters.

The younger gens not only priced out of many things (not least property) but paying for their education and now being taxed more and more yet again are sacrificing for the elderly. Whilst the loophole still exists that these boomers and beyond can give away their estate and then not pay towards care fees. Crazy really. Of course the energy issue hasn’t helped meaning people and especially small businesses are being hammered from all sides. It’s not just the UK either.

I can’t see and haven’t heard a viable alternative to raising taxes - it was always going to happen. Boris was right not to come back PM is a poisoned chalice and I suspect the next election will be a disaster and a hung parliament. This was always en route regardless of Truss.

We live in somewhat interesting times. It makes you think whether terms of parliament should be longer - say 10 years - so that govts can plan longer term and there’s less tinkering possible.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Richard Carter — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 07:35:47 GMT

Part of the problem is how the U.K. government has morphed into this all controlling, all responsible monster. The government is not the economy- it is the business of the government to provide the conditions for a healthy economy to flourish and this is not the message given.

Under Thatcher through to Blair aspirational values were encouraged so that business and by extension, jobs and all the other economies of a society with money in their pockets could take care of itself without government propping grants and other costs that in the end has to come out of taxes.

I’m amazed at supposedly serious commentators blaming Liz Truss’s 10 seconds for all the mismanagement going back decades! Turns out Boris didn’t have a magic money tree

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

KMurphy — Sat, 19 Nov 2022 05:24:44 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239954#239954"]shops coping with a 10% increase in the minimum wage.[/quote]

Prices go up to cover it.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Clive Ansell — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 21:24:27 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239954#239954"]Why were the likes of Amazon not taxed more?[/quote]

Right wing ideology. Wealth is redirected and redistributed away from the already poor and up to the top of the food chain.

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239954#239954"]I cannot see many smaller shops coping with a 10% increase in the minimum wage.[/quote]

Catch 22 situation. Without that increase, many on benefits would be better off than those working for minimum wage - if they are not already.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239951#239951"]There seems to be an argument over whether or not Austerity 2.0 is necessary, or just Conservative ideology. [/quote]

Probably an element of both. There is a financial void to fill, but I guess they will pursue right wingism where they can: hammer those at the bottom, break up the public sector, smash trade unions, destabilise the NHS ready to privatise and sell off to their chums. Time will tell.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239951#239951"]I certainly look it at and think, gosh, ouch, that is going to hurt (me), which is not something I remember thinking before![/quote]

That is my reaction too. If the likes of you, I and most on this forum are affected, how will it impact those at the bottom already struggling. I know those on benefits and OAP's will see increases of around 10% which offer them some protection, but I think the working poor are in for a rough time.

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239952#239952"] A decent pension rise for us OAPs.[/quote]

My Mother's an OAP, and is lucky as she is in receipt of private pensions too. Any increase is just likely to be swallowed up in extra taxation, given that tax thresholds have been frozen.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Bob Russell — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 14:50:30 GMT

Little surprise that post-covid and in the middle of an economic/energy war that there are some big bills coming due.

It would have been better for small businesses to have had some breathing space to recover. I cannot see many smaller shops coping with a 10% increase in the minimum wage.

Why were the likes of Amazon not taxed more?

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Richard Carter — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 12:39:14 GMT

As long as they don’t kill the goose that lays the golden eggs

The U.K. has an internationally well qualified workforce that doesn’t have to stay if the grass is now greener elsewhere.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

bob lehner — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 10:28:18 GMT

It all depends where you are in life I guess. A decent pension rise for us OAPs. Interest rates going up is good for those living off savings, who have been hammered for the last 10 years-plus. Annuity rates have shot up in the last few weeks. But I can see that plenty of people and buisinesses will feel the pain.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 18 Nov 2022 09:37:15 GMT

So what does everyone think about the new, improved budget?

There seems to be an argument over whether or not Austerity 2.0 is necessary, or just Conservative ideology.

If you think its necessary, do you think he's struck the right balance?

I certainly look it at and think, gosh, ouch, that is going to hurt (me), which is not something I remember thinking before!

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Bob Russell — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 15:40:14 GMT

I quite agree that he has a point when it comes to failure for legislation to be properly debated. He should be selective which legislation he hits to minimise good legislation being interfered with.

I have little doubt there is some very poor legislation pushed through on the nod and some of this interferes with our rights. We have a Police force that pretty much seems to be doing what it thinks is right rather than what is right. It must make things very tough for the good Policemen and women whilst encouraging or allowing bullying and inappropriate behaviour.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Lucy Fleming — Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:49:52 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239805#239805"]Voted against legislation to make upskirting an offence![/quote]

To be (reluctantly) fair to him, he did this because he objects to the method of introducing legislation (I think private members bills?) rather than because he doesn't think upskirting should be an offence. I personally would prefer that he had not chosen that particular legislation to make his point, but I don't think we should infer anything more sinister from it... However, everything else about his opinions stands!

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Sam — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 20:02:59 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239821#239821"]

Sam said:
Why is Christopher Chope a fruitcake?

Sam My point isn't really about Christopher Chope. My point is that the fact that his contrary vaccine views have been shared widely in the media rather debunks the idea that you are only hearing one side of the story, surely!

Buuuuut ...

Since you ask!

Chope has form for being someone who appears to have missed his science lessons at school.

In March, he claimed: "approximately tens of thousands of people have suffered severe damage from Covid-19 vaccines" based on a figure he plucked from mid air and could not explain: https://fullfact.org/health/christopher-chope-vaccine-damage-GB-news/

In June, he was criticised by the UK Statistics Authority for baseless claims about vaccine safety.

In his speech the other day, he urged people to watch a film made by an anti-vax group which had had its account suspended by Paypal for falsely claiming that vaccines could change your DNA.

https://www.unicef.org/montenegro/en/stories/covid-19-vaccine-does-not-change-human-dna

[/quote]

I think we should cease to call people who have concerns regarding these mRNA vaccinations "anti-vaxers" since they generally only have concerns regarding this type of pharmaceutical product.

I think it is highly unlikely that they change human DNA since humans apparently do not have reverse transcriptase (as far as I am aware, but I am obviously not a biochemist/ geneticist so please correct me if I am wrong). However the spike proteins produced following this type of vaccination have been found to persist for several months and locate to multiple organs within the body, so perhaps this has led to this belief?

Have you watched the film you mention Arlo? It is called "Safe and Effective a Second Opinion"; it is quite harrowing to watch. The side effects for these people include limb amputation and being bedridden. The film is not about "anti-vaxers" It is rather about the plight of the unfortunate people who have suffered side effects of the Covid19 vaccinations. Severe adverse effects caused by the Covid19 vaccinations may be rare, but they do exist.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 17:53:13 GMT

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239803#239803"]Why is Christopher Chope a fruitcake?[/quote]

Buuuuut ...

Since you ask!

Chope has form for being someone who appears to have missed his science lessons at school.

In June, he was criticised by the UK Statistics Authority for baseless claims about vaccine safety.

In his speech the other day, he urged people to watch a film made by an anti-vax group which had had its account suspended by Paypal for falsely claiming that vaccines could change your DNA.

https://www.unicef.org/montenegro/en/stories/covid-19-vaccine-does-not-change-human-dna

I think if we are going to discuss the vaccine, we should probably tangent this discussion, but the facts show them to be safe and effective, side effects generally very mild (sore arm stuff) and myocarditis very rare, and transient:

coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reporting

It is irresponsible of an MP to spread fear and distrust of something which has been so important to public health without having a grasp of the facts.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Bob Russell — Thu, 03 Nov 2022 10:51:12 GMT

Brexiteer/Leave means Leave, against gay marriage, climate change sceptic. What is there not to like about him?

Voted against legislation to make upskirting an offence!

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Sam — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:47:30 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239802#239802"]Second, I often see the BBC presenting contrary views or giving people the opportunity to air their different side to the story. Only the other day they gave airtime to that fruitcake MP Chope who was presenting all sorts of discredited info on Covid vaccine safety.[/quote]

Why is Christopher Chope a fruitcake?

He is simply advocating for the support of the people injured by the Covid vaccines. Surely we cannot expect to vaccinate so many millions of people without anyone suffering an adverse event? Almost all pharmaceuticals have side effects and contraindications listed in their data sheets.

Why is he a fruitcake for trying to help these people?

I think politicians who hold up their hands and say “I was wrong” are fantastic and I would vote for him I a heartbeat. How many politicians have the guts to do that? He had the guts to say he regretted his vote to make the vaccine mandatory for care workers. Remember that the whole premise of this mandate was to prevent transmission of the virus.

A Pfizer representative recently admitted in the European Parliament that the vaccine had not been tested for prevention of transmission. When asked why this was, the Pfizer representative said it was because they had to move “ at the speed of science”. Can anyone enlighten me as to how fast science goes? I learned the speed of sound and light in school but my education was sadly lacking in the speed of science… although I think it may be closely related to the speed of a gigantic profit.

So people lost their jobs and the crisis in the care sector was exacerbated on the basis of lies. There was no evidence of prevention of transmission. Whatever happened to evidence based medicine?

This is what Christopher Chope was talking about in Parliament. There are many studies on the vaccines now and their safety and efficacy should quite correctly be questioned. This is science. Questions lead to research and this leads to an increase in knowledge. Science and medicine should constantly evolve and improve and this means questioning what we understand all the time.

An interesting recent study indicates that ALL mRNA Covid (Pfizer) vaccine recipients had elevated troponin levels three days after vaccine. In this study 1 in 27 recipients had levels indicating subclinical myocarditis. That one worries me.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 17:27:09 GMT

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239800#239800"]Ok Arlo. If not the Government then who?[/quote]

I don't think any one individual or organisation controls BBC output other than itself. I think about the only thing which does is the type of people employs which I suspect tends to be metropolitan liberal elite sorts.

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239800#239800"]We are told only one side of many stories. Lockdowns, Covid19, climate change and the war in Ukraine. Only the official narrative reported.[/quote]

Hang on, you're presupposing that there is another side to a story, when that is not always the case. Sometimes the official narrative is the only one because its the facts.

But sure, most stories are multifaceted. I don't, however, recognise your description of only being told one side of the story. First, we have a free press and so there is usually some media outlet presenting the contrary view (usually the Grauniad, or C4 news, I find). Second, I often see the BBC presenting contrary views or giving people the opportunity to air their different side to the story. Only the other day they gave airtime to that fruitcake MP Chope who was presenting all sorts of discredited info on Covid vaccine safety.

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239800#239800"]For example, I have searched through the BBC world site, but I can find no mention of either Russia's accusations that the UK blew up the Nordstream pipeline [/quote]

Yes, that's a surprise. I couldn't find it either. But there are plenty of other media outlets that have reported it. Decisions about what to report or not report are not usually a conspiracy, more likely to be either bad journalism or other editorial priorities.

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239800#239800"]Whatever the "truth" may be, we are not being told about significant events.[/quote]

But we are!

Nordstream accusations have been very widely reported elsewhere.

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239800#239800"]To consider our Government to be a Nazi regime is too strong, but we need freedom of information both in the media and online in social media. We don't have that[/quote]

I think broadly speaking we have a very transparent media in this country.

I dont know enough about the online safety bill, though, and the impact that may have.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Sam — Wed, 02 Nov 2022 14:01:45 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239785#239785"]

Oh my good god!

Are really you arguing here that the BBC is the propaganda arm of our (Nazi) government?

Really?

You really think the Government controls or even influences the BBC output?

[/quote]

Ok Arlo. If not the Government then who?

We are told only one side of many stories. Lockdowns, Covid19, climate change and the war in Ukraine. Only the official narrative reported.

For example, I have searched through the BBC world site, but I can find no mention of either Russia's accusations that the UK blew up the Nordstream pipeline or their recent representations to the UNSC regarding US involvement in biological weapons activity in the Ukraine.

I am not saying in any way that these things are true. War always involves propaganda on BOTH sides, does it not?

Whatever the "truth" may be, we are not being told about significant events. (I think Russia's accusations regarding Nordstream are significant and they have said they will not let it rest; this could have serious repercussions for us as a nation). Why are we not being told about it? Who decides what is news and what is not?

To consider our Government to be a Nazi regime is too strong, but we need freedom of information both in the media and online in social media. We don't have that and it will only get worse with the Online Safety Bill.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Bob Russell — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 15:04:25 GMT

No blaming the French for allowing these poor people to be bundled inro unsafe inflatables wearing dodgy life vests?

It is absolutely disgraceful that more efforts are not made to deal with the people behind this vile trade. That would take cooperation of course.

The whole visa and immigration system in the UK is completely inadequate. Genuine applicants paying thousands to wait months for a visa. Asylum seekers waiting a year or more in limbo. All the time there are delays the numbers arriving mount up. This is why the detention centre has been overwhelmed. It was considered to be perfectly acceptable in the summer but then the numbers were much lower.

It appears large numbers are being moved out now and stormy seas should keep crossings down for now.

Ms May brought in protections againstmodern slavery but it seems this has been picked up on and taken advantage of.

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 11:03:22 GMT

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239782#239782"]When the BBC news reported at all on these protest marches they indicated that " a few thousand" people marched on these protests. However approximately 1 million people marched in London alone at one point and other protests went on around the country. Suppression of information and misreporting, along with control of the media, was a Nazi tactic was it not?[/quote]

Oh my good god!

Are really you arguing here that the BBC is the propaganda arm of our (Nazi) government?

Really?

You really think the Government controls or even influences the BBC output?

[quote userid="8182" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239780#239780"]In other words, if you attend or support any protest in which “serious disruption to two or more individuals or to an organisation” occurs, you can be forced to wear an electronic tag. “Serious disruption” was redefined by the 2022 Police Act to include noise.”[/quote]

I think that is something of a misrepresentation.

The Public Order Bill seems reasonable enough to me: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-order-bill-overarching-documents/public-order-bill-factsheet

Specifically, the tagging bit is part of:

Introducing Serious Disruption Prevention Orders, a new preventative court order targeting protestors who are determined to repeatedly inflict disruption on the public.

Clearly when we talk about "noise", the courts are not about to start tagging people for an overly loud fart, or whistling in a built up area.

I must say, I really struggle to see any comparison whatsoever with Nazi Germany here.

But do let me know when Rishi Sunak holds his first march, although I am not sure The Northallerton Rallies will have quite the same ring to it!

[quote userid="8182" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30466/rishi-sunak-the-pm/239780#239780"]Manston Detention Centre is an abomination by all accounts and immigrants are being held in disease ridden “wretched” squalor whilst their asylum applications are being processed.[/quote]

Strong words, but I have yet to see any photos of the abomination / squalor etc.

Actually, that surprises me. How come nobody, not one of the immigrants and not one of the security guards, has shared a photo of conditions inside?

(You'd think that if conditions were so bad, there'd be at least one whistleblower amongst the guards).

RE: Rishi Sunak, the PM

Bob Russell — Tue, 01 Nov 2022 09:49:07 GMT

My views on the Police as an organisation are completely unprintable therefore giving them more powers does appear highly dangerous.

Sticking yourself to a road to cause maximum disruption to ordinary people is hardly impressive. The VW dealers in Germany had the right idea. They just turned off the lights and went home. Presumably if you are stuck to the floor you cannot cause much damage. To great amusement the stuck were very upset about the toileting facilities and food quality!

Easy to slag off every member of the government and everything as being their fault.

Edit: If people believe the UK is anything like Nazi Germany then the lack of knowledge is staggering. Perhaps the order for cattle trucks has been delayed??