Elizabeth Truss

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Stephen Pointing — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 11:18:38 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239701#239701"]And the rest of her ungenerous analysis was just moulded to fit that narrative. [/quote]

I might not agree with every point she made but I think she got more things right than she got wrong and I thought she made her case very well. It was a well written piece.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 10:23:53 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239701#239701"]Yesterday they were reporting that he had more than 100[/quote]

Not publicly. That's my point. We will never know if he reached 100. I don't think he did.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:40:57 GMT

[quote userid="3929" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239700#239700"]It’s worth remembering that inflation is now about 10% everywhere certainly all over the EU[/quote]

Inflation is a month to month comparison, and as it's primarily fuel, so should drop in a year regardless, so let's wait for the triumphant Conservatives telling us 'We've cracked it'

In regards Boris and COVID vaccination. There was no other way out, vaccinate, he saw that but then again so had the Oxford lab and nearly everyone else. The only advantage we had and yes it was Brexit was the ability to say do it now, one of the few benefits

Looking like Richi Sunak, which is a relief, hopefully Penny Mordants (PM!!) political ambition won's scupper it and the blue rinse brigade

Neil

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:27:00 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239699#239699"]Does he deserve credit for recognising this (which he could have easily worked out in the Caribbean) or did he not run because after his talks with Penny and Rishi he realised he would struggle to get 100 MPs publicly supporting him?[/quote]

Yesterday they were reporting that he had more than 100 MPs, so I think he could have run.

I don't agree that you could sound out MPs from the Caribbean, so perfectly fair and reasonable to come back and test the waters.

I suspect grumpyoldman is probably right. It looked like Rishi was the favourite and egomaniac or not, he probably thought he'd lose and that would prevent him having another stab at it later.

[quote userid="13196" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239697#239697"]Read the article by Camilla Long in yesterday's Sunday Times.[/quote]

Stephen Pointing Just did. Must say, I thought it was utter tripe. The idea that the population of this country is so engaged with politics that we're all suffering Stockholm Syndrome over Boris is, I think, laughable. And the rest of her ungenerous analysis was just moulded to fit that narrative.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

grumpyoldman — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:13:03 GMT

I suspect the thought of not winning made Boris back out , egomaniacs can’t stand rejection . Let’s hope for some stability now at least until the next election . It’s worth remembering that inflation is now about 10% everywhere certainly all over the EU . A lot of the current ecanomic reset is out of our hands .

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:05:14 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239696#239696"]I also think he was too divisive a figure to lead the country at this time, and I think he deserves some credit for recognising that himself [/quote]

I take your point on board, but I disagree with this last paragraph. Does he deserve credit for recognising this (which he could have easily worked out in the Caribbean) or did he not run because after his talks with Penny and Rishi he realised he would struggle to get 100 MPs publicly supporting him?

You might think it's the first. I think it's the second.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Richard Carter — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 09:00:53 GMT

It’s not about disregarding the good decisions, it’s about integrity, leopards not changing their spots and the magic money tree economy that is now beginning to bite. I’m also aware Jimmy Savile was adored for his wonderful personality, good works etc

Our press ridicules the idea of the USA re-electing Trump but seem quite ok with BJ ‘cause he’s a good guy, one of us…

We about to see partygate opened again- we would have gone from inquiry to back stabbing for the next 2 years

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Stephen Pointing — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 08:56:25 GMT

And I'm equally amazed at how so many folk can continue to support him despite his manifest defiencies. Read the article by Camilla Long in yesterday's Sunday Times. She thinks that a large section of the British public has an unhealthy relationship with BJ and react towards him like the victim in an abusive relationship - they know that he really isn't all that good but they can't help themselves but keep returning to him for yet another dose of punishment. I think there is an element of truth in her analysis.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 24 Oct 2022 08:23:23 GMT

Neil Wheadon, what I find really strange is the way in which people who are anti-boris will not brook the idea he did anything good whatsoever. Even amongst highly educated people like yourself, who KNOW that much of the criticism they've heard was manufactured or exaggerated by the (mainly left wing) media, or born of political expediency. And because he is a colourful character, he is an easy target.

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239679#239679"]

Michael Woodhouse said:
Amazing vaccine rollout

History will show, he had little to actually do with this

[/quote]

You are joking, right?

Boris hired Kate Bingham, gave her an open cheque book and told her to get on with it. That was a brave decision by Boris, and it was very much why we had the vaccines faster than any other European country.

[quote userid="13609" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239688#239688"]I'll not go down the rabbit hole and comment on the other points. You're a Boris fan, I'm not and we're not likely to change each others opinions. [/quote]

Probably wise, and I will follow suit! I'm just curious at the way opinions about him are so polarised. Is it the man himself that polarises people. Is it the media, and perhaps some people have been reading the Guardian a bit more than is healthy? Or is it social media and the written word, which is by nature polarising? Or more likely a combination of these things.

I think on balance, history will judge Boris to have done well on vaccines, on Ukraine (when I think others may have been minded to appease Putin), and delivering Brexit. But I also think he showed some significant failures in judgement. Allowing himself to be ambushed by a cake. Allowing an unhealthy culture to develop in Downing Street. Hiring a sex pest.

I also think he was too divisive a figure to lead the country at this time, and I think he deserves some credit for recognising that himself (though I am sure the Boris haters will find a less charitable interpretation!)

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 22:41:43 GMT

Sad, but RIshi will be ok. He's our MP and had my backing last time

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Stephen Pointing — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 21:57:10 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239687#239687"]I heard talks with Rishi didn't progress and Boris is running as a result. I wonder what could Rishi have that could convince Boris against running.[/quote]

Fortunately, it has not worked out this way Francisco. The opposite has happened, and BJ has pulled out of the race leaving the path clear for Rishi Sunak to become the next PM. Thank goodness someone (or several people) made him see sense.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Andreas Ege — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 10:26:21 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]Had a baby whilst in office - that's hard enough as a vet, never mind as PM[/quote]

If I remember right, it was his wife having the baby.

I'd argue it's probably easier. Can't see a PM would struggle finding childcare even at stupid times, for example.

I'll not go down the rabbit hole and comment on the other points. You're a Boris fan, I'm not and we're not likely to change each others opinions.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Francisco Gomez — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 10:23:52 GMT

I heard talks with Rishi didn't progress and Boris is running as a result. I wonder what could Rishi have that could convince Boris against running.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Richard Carter — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 10:22:27 GMT

I’m aware of a certain respect about Boris attitude to problems by cutting Gordian knot but if I was a foreign leader, I would be be wary of shaking his hand in public. I would not want children to think his type of behaviour has been rewarded.

It’s not ok to endorse people who behave like this.

In a previous century, he would have been drummed out of his club and polite society and in another country tar and feathers.

A bad Hallowe’en story of return of the mummy or is it rather the undead??

I’m even more shocked that some MPs can’t see this.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Eamon McAllister — Sun, 23 Oct 2022 08:00:26 GMT

Johnson didn't rush back from New York when the Tottenham riots started in August 2011 during his time as Mayor of London.
He didn't rush back from a holiday in Somerset when Afghanistan fell in August 2021.
He didn't rush back from Spain when energy prices surged and there was a fuel shortage in October 2021.
He didn't rush back from Slovenia when inflation headed towards 13% in August 2022.
He didn't rush back from Greece when the cost of living crisis surged, also in August 2022, his second holiday that month.

He rushed back from the Dominican Republic on Saturday.

I guess the difference this time is that there's something in it for him.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 21:37:50 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239679#239679"]

No, fundamentally no, what about the Queen?

[/quote]

You mean the Duke's funeral? Obviously she followed rules in public, but I'd bet everything I own her staff went within 2m of her every single day.

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239679#239679"]The support was a treasury decision[/quote][quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239679#239679"]he had little to actually do with this[/quote]

and you think any PM tells them just to crack on with no say?

I guess it's like the bins at work - day to day I have little to do with them, but I put a contract in place, delegated jobs to staff and let them get on with it.

For the moment I think he's the best option

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 21:23:33 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]1. Nearly died (was in ICU)[/quote]

100's of thousands actually died.

What was it 1 in 60 had COVID at any one time. By holding a social event he would have statistically encouraged its spread.

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]2. Delivered Brexit - whatever your views it had to be done as voted on. Decent deal.[/quote]

A half baked 'get it done job' a bit like me being asked to demolish a house by driving a digger into it and saying 'job done'

Ask anyone in Northern Ireland

One good legacy of Liz Truss is that the 2 parties (UK and EU) are on cordial terms now

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]Amazing vaccine rollout[/quote]

History will show, he had little to actually do with this

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]4. Amazing support for Ukraine - he even visited. Has been said best of any world leader[/quote]

Maybe, but that's typical Boris, an easy win

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]5. Had a baby whilst in office - that's hard enough as a vet, never mind as PM[/quote]

You're scraping the barrel here Michael

Does he change the nappies?

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]6. Excellent support for the country during pandemic and under Rishi, as chancellor, an expectation that is to be paid back[/quote]

The support was a treasury decision

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]Literally everyone I know in real life stretched Covid rules[/quote]

No, fundamentally no, what about the Queen?

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239677#239677"]I want a human as a PM who understands what goes on in real life.[/quote]

Really?

Thank goodness your local MP, who I think is pretty decent looks like he's going to get past that 100

Neil

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Stephen Pointing — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 21:20:35 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239676#239676"]That's very different from 'learnt the lesson'.[/quote]

Excellent point Francisco. Bright though he may be I think it is beyond Boris to learn lessons when it comes down to questions of morality and integrity - neither of those words are in his lexicon.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 20:01:06 GMT

[quote userid="13609" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239669#239669"]Assuming this wasn't meant ironically. [/quote]

No. Absolutely not

[quote userid="13609" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239669#239669"]It never ceases to amaze me in how different a reality people are that live in the same country at the same time[/quote]

1. Nearly died (was in ICU)

2. Delivered Brexit - whatever your views it had to be done as voted on. Decent deal.

3. Steered us through COVID. Amazing vaccine rollout, never have been as fast under EU. Nightingale hospitals. One of the first countries restriction free.

4. Amazing support for Ukraine - he even visited. Has been said best of any world leader

5. Had a baby whilst in office - that's hard enough as a vet, never mind as PM

6. Excellent support for the country during pandemic and under Rishi, as chancellor, an expectation that is to be paid back

Couldn't give a stuff about a few parties. Literally everyone I know in real life stretched Covid rules. All we needed was to restrict some movement, not all. I want a human as a PM who understands what goes on in real life. Plays the fool, but a very bright man. Won the 2019 election with the biggest majority in my life. He should be the PM.

What has any other PM achieved in 3 years?

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 19:53:20 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239675#239675"]made their point.[/quote]

That's very different from 'learnt the lesson'. That's what many of his detractors must think from inside the Tory party.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 19:49:25 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239667#239667"]Why would they want to re-elect someone they worked so hard to get rid of? [/quote]

Had his wrist slapped, lost his job, made their point.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Arlo Guthrie — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:06:41 GMT

www.vetsurgeon.org/.../0310.3c2d7d87_2D00_d688_2D00_4bfe_2D00_9842_2D00_795880848b30.mp4

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Andreas Ege — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 17:56:36 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239653#239653"]I agree. Boris best PM in my lifetime. Bring him back.[/quote]

It never ceases to amaze me in how different a reality people are that live in the same country at the same time.

Assuming this wasn't meant ironically.

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 17:40:21 GMT

Regardless what you think about BJ, even his most ardent supporters must admit that this has become a massive distraction and the parliamentary investigation over the next two months will add to this. I hope I speak for most, but I am thoroughly fed up with a government whose objective should be the stability and worldwide standing. You only have to look at foreign papers/correspondence to see that lasting damage is happening now.

Neil

RE: Elizabeth Truss

Clive Ansell — Sat, 22 Oct 2022 17:35:22 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30411/elizabeth-truss/239653#239653"]I agree. Boris best PM in my lifetime. Bring him back.[/quote]

Why would they want to re-elect someone they worked so hard to get rid of?