Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Julian Earl — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:19:42 GMT

Excellent suggestions Alastair!!

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Alistair Graham-Evans — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 20:40:54 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30369/talking-point-veterinary-business-training/238408#238408"]what would you prioritise?[/quote]

Probably an understanding of profit and loss accounts, how fees are calculated and the implications of not charging correctly.

How to integrate as a new graduate, communicate, time management and work in a team.

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 16:11:01 GMT

[quote userid="28933" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30369/talking-point-veterinary-business-training/238399#238399"] Apart from them not spelling my name right (a lifelong challenge)[/quote]

Jeff Gascoyne How embarrassing, I made the same mistake :) But fixed now and welcome to the forum.

Someone made the point earlier that the veterinary degree is already very full. I am curious how much business training is given by any of the vet schools at the moment, and if you had to prioritise one aspect of business training because there wasn't time to cover it all within the degree, what would you prioritise?

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

bob lehner — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 10:44:12 GMT

[quote userid="7269" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30369/talking-point-veterinary-business-training/238350#238350"]I think some business training would be a very good thing. Even if working as an employee or for a corporate, it would give vets an understanding of why we charge what we do, what profit margins are like etc, and not to be nervous of charging for their time and materials. As after all, that pays their wages. We had no business training at all, I had no aspirations to own a practice and sort of fell into it, we have rather muddled through it and I’m sure could have been much more profitable if we had more nous about it in the past. I think we might be getting to grips with it now we are approaching retirement! [/quote]

Agree with Joyce.

Back in the 'old days' most vets who chose a career in practice aspired to become a partner, or own their own business. Most of us had no real clue about running a business - and just winged it, with help from the likes of SPVS.

Perhaps rather surprisingly, most practices were pretty successful financially- but I guess we lived in easier times - far fewer practices existed, so there was much less competition as compared to now, and we stuck 100% mark-up on all drugs, which provided a good income. Brucella and TB testing also provided a steady income for mixed /LA practices.

Today, in the Corporate-dominated world I guess employed vets are rather divorced from some of the economic realities of life - and it would be a good thing if they learned the basics - either whilst at college, or soon after.

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Jeff Gascoyne — Wed, 27 Jul 2022 08:37:24 GMT

Hii Arlo - Apart from them not spelling my name right (a lifelong challenge), my own experience is that the majority (not all by any means) really engage in the subject and if taught properly, not didactically, but interactively, they really get a lot from it. I can look to several students that did Business EMS with me back in 2011-12 who are now running their own businesses in the profession and they occasionally ask for advice or support and I am more than willing. I just think that knowledge of veterinary business is hugely helpful in developing self worth. I recently did an internal training session and explained that for every £1 of income (net), the practice only makes around 14p of profit and in some practices it is a lot lower (and from that, investments etc... need to be made). I just think some commercial awareness is important for a variety of reasons but I also agree that more non-clinical CPD should be encouraged by owners/corporates to increase knowledge in their teams. Thanks for responding!

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Alistair Graham-Evans — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 13:26:44 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30369/talking-point-veterinary-business-training/238362#238362"]Do you think one idea, then, might be to require that some element of the annual CPD requirement relates to the business of veterinary practice?[/quote]

Veterinary practices are so diverse that what is helpful for one may be an irrelevance for others. There are many opportunities to learn business skills after graduating but I don’t think it should be a CPD requirement. New graduates have enough on their plates but should realise that part of their employment expectations is to charge according to the practices fee scale.

However I am convinced that poor management practices are a contributing cause of poor attrition rates in the profession. Improving business skills has to come from desire for self-improvement rather than compulsory CPD. The Australian Veterinary Association has recently started an Employer of Choice accreditation program that sets high standards for HR, application of employment law, WHS, communication and record keeping in addition to setting and achieving management goals. The hope is that clinics with accreditation may find it easier to recruit staff in future. There are probably similar schemes for UK business and some business aspects in the BSAVA practice standards scheme?
I have no experience of the corporate world so I have no idea what training is given to clinic directors. I have no formal business training other than numerous courses and the school of hard knocks!

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 09:21:34 GMT

I think most vets just want to go to work, do a good job and look after patients. I agree with Alistair, those who want to learn about business can on their own time. Time at uni would be better spent on getting the fundamentals right, develop resilience, solid basic first day skills and create realistic expectations about our job.

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 07:44:09 GMT

[quote userid="6765" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30369/talking-point-veterinary-business-training/238356#238356"]I think this is more of a post - graduate training thing.[/quote]

That's interesting, so you see it as not so important that a vet has a basic grounding / understanding of the business aspect of being a vet from day one, just something they can optionally do at some stage afterwards.

Do you think one idea, then, might be to require that some element of the annual CPD requirement relates to the business of veterinary practice? Or would that, do you think, be the slippery slope to the RCVS telling everyone what subjects they have to do?

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Alistair Graham-Evans — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 22:44:36 GMT

I think this is more of a post - graduate training thing.

Same with HR.

Maybe some resilience training pre-grad and preparation for the real world delivered by people who survive out there rather than academics.

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Joyce Whitehead — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 15:56:05 GMT

I think some business training would be a very good thing. Even if working as an employee or for a corporate, it would give vets an understanding of why we charge what we do, what profit margins are like etc, and not to be nervous of charging for their time and materials. As after all, that pays their wages. We had no business training at all, I had no aspirations to own a practice and sort of fell into it, we have rather muddled through it and I’m sure could have been much more profitable if we had more nous about it in the past. I think we might be getting to grips with it now we are approaching retirement!

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Julian Earl — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 15:28:11 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30369/talking-point-veterinary-business-training"]

do you agree with Jeff that there should be comprehensive business training as part of the degree? Or is it not needed for most students, because they'll mostly go and work for a corporate which will handle that side of things.

Even then, Jeff makes an interesting point about the benefit of having a greater understanding of worth to the business.

[/quote]

Absolutely...! Even in a Cororate I expect that the vets on the front-line have to answer questions/challenges about fees just as an Assistant in a Private Practice does on a daily basis!At Liverpool we had a brief series of lectures on the topic but they were not really adequate! In the End I went into Partnership with a basic knowledge of things picked up along the way and speaking to the current aartners etc. Not ideal if no-one has a full Grasp of the details?? I could never do it again. A Course like this one would have been ideal I suspect. Whilst I loved working with the animals, or most of them anyway, even some of the humans as well, it as the Business Side that as the major Stress-factor; No question!

I would humbly suggest that advice is given to students on how to avoid and manage stress itself within the Job. We all know of the stress and depression-risk in the profession but many of us could offer useful tips to incoming New graduates about how to Manage/avoid stress in the first place? A great service for New Graduates Surely?/ Even for older Graduates as well? such as those Running a business for the First time??

Thanks for Reading...

Julian Earl.

RE: Talking Point: Veterinary Business Training

Jill Butterworth — Mon, 25 Jul 2022 13:01:06 GMT

I think they do need to know more, but it's a really overloaded course as it is, it was bad back in the day, but it's really overwhelming now, poor things.