Imperial or metric? A survey

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Cinzia Gandini — Thu, 30 Jun 2022 23:08:23 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237866#237866"]all in one go[/quote]

The Romans were dealing with VXX + XMCVI perfectly, counting the front row one by one and approx the number for far away things tremendous impact

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 29 Jun 2022 13:22:18 GMT

Because 13 is a prime number, the 13 times table is a particularly useful one to get off by heart.

[quote userid="3685" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237857#237857"]Although I wonder whether because children don’t have to play around with numbers that aren’t a factor of 10/100 in day to day life so much (oz, lbs, stones, feet, inches), it’s probably not as ‘practiced’ in the real world (the 14 and 16 times tables come in handy!)[/quote]

Indeed. But when they become veterinary surgeons and need to work ot the dose for a 27kg dog at 3.8mg/kg using a 4.5mg/ml solution quickly in their heads, they will find it handy.

Mildly interesting if barely relevant anecdote. My maternal grandfather was a chartered accountant. He could add up a whole page of sums in pounds, shillings, pence and ha'pence in his head – not column by column, all in one go.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Nicola Cole — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 22:06:24 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237830#237830"]Last time I talked about it with a primary school teacher – must be a dozen years ago, maybe more – teaching times tables at all was frowned upon. In fact it was literally forbidden at the school where she taught. Lunacy.[/quote]

Wow-never knew that. It’s definitely back now.

Although I wonder whether because children don’t have to play around with numbers that aren’t a factor of 10/100 in day to day life so much (oz, lbs, stones, feet, inches), it’s probably not as ‘practiced’ in the real world (the 14 and 16 times tables come in handy!)

And yes, 11 times table exactly as you say (in my mind!)-times 10 and add it on!

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 28 Jun 2022 00:37:13 GMT

[quote userid="3685" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237827#237827"]Slight aside, but yes, they are still taught the eleven and twelve times tables.[/quote]

I apologise and stand corrected. I'm probably just a little out of date. Last time I talked with grandchildren about it – some years ago now – they only went up to ten times and they didn't do tables much. Last time I talked about it with a primary school teacher – must be a dozen years ago, maybe more – teaching times tables at all was frowned upon. In fact it was literally forbidden at the school where she taught. Lunacy.

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237828#237828"]OK it's a side track, but for 11, add the 2 numbers together and put that in the middle[/quote]

Oh, a nice trick. I like it.

But 11x is easy anyway: just multiply by 10 (and surely anyone can do that ) and add the original. So, 630+63=693.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 27 Jun 2022 22:35:03 GMT

OK it's a side track, but for 11, add the 2 numbers together and put that in the middle

So 63 x 11 is 6+3=9, put that in the middle 693

Works for numbers greater than 10, just carry the 1 over

So 86 x 11 is8(14)6 = 946

Neil

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Nicola Cole — Mon, 27 Jun 2022 20:30:58 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237781#237781"] Perhaps it's because schoolchildren are no longer taught their times tables – or if they are, they aren't taught the eleven or twelve times tables.[/quote]

Slight aside, but yes, they are still taught the eleven and twelve times tables.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 13:48:20 GMT

[quote userid="12930" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237595#237595"]I'm torn though on reading older books to the kids though - do I translate as I go and just read it as metric (all kids now understand what a metre is for instance owing to the large number of 1m or 2m markings that have appeared in public places over the last 2 years) so the kid has an appreciation of the distance between Mr Wilkins and Jennings, or be faithful to the time the book was set in and read out the yards? What a dilemma.[/quote]

No dilemma at all. Stick to the original. You are underestimating your children's ability to understand. If they are puzzled, you could either explain quickly that a metre is about the same as a yard, or if the time is right you could use the opportunity to digress into an explanation of different systems of measure and how it all works for the many people who still use the "old" way. ("What was it like in the olden days, Grandpa?")

If your children can follow a story about Linbury Court, an all-boys "prep school" of 97 pupils, they can cope with pounds, feet and inches.

(And if they can't, all I can say is: " I– I – I – doh!")

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 13:18:22 GMT

[quote userid="2675" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237791#237791"]

Evelyn Barbour-Hill said:
Explain?

The blue painted locals really didn’t need to know the distance from Hadrian’s wall or the tons of supplies needed to feed a legion

[/quote]

True, but they needed to pace out the size of a field big enough t grow enough woad to create a myth that they painted themselves blue... not to mention a deal of mensuration sufficient to construct Stonehenge.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237793#237793"]

Evelyn Barbour-Hill said:
Fahrenheit is a superior measure for body temperature,

How?

Surely it doesn't matter which one uses, as long as normal and abnormal, hypo/normo/hyper-thermia can be recognised?

[/quote]

True, but the divisions in Fahrenheit make variations from the normal more immediately recognisable and classifiable. Of course if you've never used anything but Centigrade that's irrelevant.

The size of a degree is entirely arbitrary in both systems.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Julian Earl — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 09:10:50 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237793#237793"]The SI unit for temperature is the Kelvin (K), so maybe we should all be using that. [/quote]

Or then just use Celsius and add 270 to all the figures?/ that will confuse anyone looking back to oday's ecords from the future!!?

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Clive Ansell — Sun, 26 Jun 2022 08:22:55 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237781#237781"]Fahrenheit is a superior measure for body temperature,[/quote]

How?

Surely it doesn't matter which one uses, as long as normal and abnormal, hypo/normo/hyper-thermia can be recognised?

The SI unit for temperature is the Kelvin (K), so maybe we should all be using that.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 25 Jun 2022 21:56:01 GMT

[quote userid="13609" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237784#237784"]Call me cynic, but I think the idea is to rub it in and set an easy visible sign that Britain has left the EU, no matter how pointless the exercise is.[/quote]

unnecessary

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Richard Carter — Sat, 25 Jun 2022 18:20:57 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237781#237781"]Explain?[/quote]

The blue painted locals really didn’t need to know the distance from Hadrian’s wall or the tons of supplies needed to feed a legion

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Andreas Ege — Sat, 25 Jun 2022 16:24:00 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237781#237781"]Metric is the best system for scientific use. Imperial is better for most everyday use[/quote]

Well, actually, no. It depends on what you've grown up with/ are well used to. I have good intuitive grasp for metrics while I can work with most imperials besides stone, I have to think what they actually mean and that often works by translating them to metric.

So for me metric is better in everyday use most of the time.

Don't think I ever had any medical issues using centigrade, absolutely not buying into any benefits of either system besides ease of use for the one you're used to. Germany's been using centigrade for 150 years, would be surprised if one animal had suffered or had a wrong diagnose because of that.

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237781#237781"]"returning to Imperial" is mostly about not criminalising a greengrocer[/quote]

Call me cynic, but I think the idea is to rub it in and set an easy visible sign that Britain has left the EU, no matter how pointless the exercise is.

You'd think there were more pressing matters to deal with and spent time and money on.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 25 Jun 2022 13:25:34 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237541#237541"]I'm not sure we are very metric. Miles, pints, feet, inches, furlongs, yards, stone pounds and ounces all used in daily life.[/quote]

Exactly.

Metric is the best system for scientific use. Imperial is better for most everyday use, being based on practical measures rather than an arbitrary decimal fraction of the Earth's circumference (or rather, of what they thought the Earth's circumference was when they defined it).

Fahrenheit is a superior measure for body temperature, as Bob and Stephen have said. If anyone needs it in Centigrade they can use a conversion table from my Fahenheit record.

I'm happy with "French" for tube sizes and very happy with Imperial for sutures and wire gauge for wire – the important thing is instant familiarity, not some dogmatic devotion to supposedly scientific consistency.

Pounds, shillings and pence were not difficult, if they were what you'd been brought up with. The big advantage of a decimal currency is the ease of calculating VAT and other percentage rates, and I'm puzzled as to why so many people seem still to be unable to do that without an electronic calculator. Perhaps it's because schoolchildren are no longer taught their times tables – or if they are, they aren't taught the eleven or twelve times tables. If you know your twelve times, VAT calculations when the rate is 20 % are done instantlt in your head. I find thirteen-times quite useful too.

Anyway, "returning to Imperial" is mostly about not criminalising a greengrocer for selling somebody a pound of tomatoes when a pound of tomatoes is what they asked for.

Who woud mistake a 25 lb. dog for a 25kg dog because the scales read "25"?

[quote userid="2675" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237556#237556"]Those bloody Romans and their chariots[/quote]

Explain?

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Beats — Fri, 17 Jun 2022 06:39:15 GMT

You could run a client information evening and screen Series one of Numberblocks.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

cairncross — Thu, 16 Jun 2022 19:23:55 GMT

Round here many still speak Ulster Scots so the quantum that precedes any unit does not necessarily follow standard English. ? Yin,wheen lock etc

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Beats — Sun, 12 Jun 2022 20:04:39 GMT

Metric all the way for me.

I'm torn though on reading older books to the kids though - do I translate as I go and just read it as metric (all kids now understand what a metre is for instance owing to the large number of 1m or 2m markings that have appeared in public places over the last 2 years) so the kid has an appreciation of the distance between Mr Wilkins and Jennings, or be faithful to the time the book was set in and read out the yards? What a dilemma.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

cairncross — Sat, 11 Jun 2022 18:06:20 GMT

As above plus horses in hands , recently have changed from measuring authoritarian bull$hit in pinches to Olympic swimming pools

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

bob lehner — Sat, 11 Jun 2022 10:32:15 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237520#237520"]

Very, thank you.

After so long being metric, I'm not sure what the argument is for going back to imperial

[/quote]

For me, it's a hotch-potch.

Personally I always assess animals' weight in kilos, but my own weight in stones and lbs, and my height in feet and inches.

General measurements - length of wood etc. in feet and inches, but bag of cement in kilos. Pint of water/milk/beer. Litre of petrol, but miles to the gallon (no idea what kilometre to the litre looks like).

Gardens and fields in acres not hectares, distances in miles not kilometres.

Ambient temperatures in degrees C, but for animal temps I use degrees F.

Baby weights still done in lbs I believe?

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 10 Jun 2022 20:23:20 GMT

In Spain we used to have pesetas and before I was an adult, they used to have perras chicas and perras gordas. If you went to the arcades, then you'd need cinco duros (5 hard ones) which used to be a 25 pesetas (ptas) coin... Great memories. Some older folk used to proudly work large sums in duros so we youngsters had to multiply everything by 5. 'How much is that? Veinticinco mil duros' What a waste of time.

They made one with a hole in the middle so people started to make some sort of necklaces with them but they didn't work on some machines. My favourite was Street Fighter II.

Use for Spain to bring back perras and duros? Other than confusing the younger generation, absolutely 0. Nada. Was it part of our culture? Yes.

Do we need it? We need it as much as bullfighting.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Richard Carter — Fri, 10 Jun 2022 16:29:02 GMT

Those bloody Romans and their chariots

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Bob Russell — Fri, 10 Jun 2022 11:10:35 GMT

Perhaps the key thing is that we should be able to choose rather than be dictated to.

I have returned to an iPhone and actually like the 'lightning' lead (or whatever it is called. The USB c is OK but there is no need for a different charger, just a different lead. I have several leads that end up with all three types of connector and they cost about £3 each.

I am a little fed up with being dictated to by someone that should be doing something useful.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Stephen Pointing — Thu, 09 Jun 2022 17:21:40 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30316/imperial-or-metric-a-survey/237532#237532"]I use Fahrenheit still[/quote]

Same here Bob. Because it is a much more extended scale I find it much easier to recognise a high temperature. The problem with C is that quite small elevations can be significant. When I'm writing up the patient records I often put the temp in both F and C - the former for me and the latter for my younger colleagues - and everyone in the practice is younger than me these days.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Michael Woodhouse — Thu, 09 Jun 2022 14:58:04 GMT

I'm not sure we are very metric. Miles, pints, feet, inches, furlongs, yards, stone pounds and ounces all used in daily life.

In veterinary medicine we use French sizes for chest tubes, USP for suture material (where metric much easier), wire gauge for needles. Equally happy with Fahrenheit or Celsius. Give me a few mins and I can probably dredge up Kelvin......

I interchange metric and imperial for cooking. Would fight to the death over a pint of beer (half litre of fizzy continental crap, no thanks), and I do want a crown on it (and a date!). I want a blue passport.

Anyway I think letting people use both systems with no preference is just fine. Eyeball dogs weight - so often they are leaning on the wall, owner pulling the lead or handbag on the scale - double check. No reasonable reason to mix up lb and kg and not notice.

RE: Imperial or metric? A survey

Julie Innes — Thu, 09 Jun 2022 11:18:15 GMT

It's obviously a whole load of tosh designed to distract us from the rest of the Shitshow right now! Maybe Boris thinks it will appeal to people's "Britishness"... laughable