RCVS Council Elections

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Bob Russell — Tue, 17 May 2022 13:38:16 GMT

Catching up after my holiday!

I believe many practices would happily cover absences for RCVS work if they believed they would be represented.

We are (sadly) represented by corporate candidates, industry, academia and people that are not running practices or particularly working at the coal face.

The idea of a committee member coming from E&J would have been the straw on the camels back IMO!

Two out of the three candidates have my support. Existing members have done little to help the profession do what it is primarily there for (caring for animals) and are part of the near incomprehensible process of regulating us by trying to mirror other professional bodies.

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 01 May 2022 23:25:24 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237074#237074"]The reason as primarily that the presentations I read all seemed bland and trying to press the same buttons[/quote]

OK, I was wrong and the rest of the profession noticed

Olivia Cook elected

Her manifesto

We live in a time in veterinary medicine where the science of what we do is better than ever, but where we have lost the art. Hippocrates said gloomily, "the Art is long" and we as veterinary surgeons deal constantly with the impossibility of perfection, our near-inevitable failure to achieve "gold standard" for any number of reasons. The mental health problems in the profession link to this, our constant feeling of failing, our lack of forgiveness for ourselves and indeed our clients, for being ordinary human beings.

I hope she makes an impact, but she'll need to clone herself

Here's hoping

Neil

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Francisco Gomez — Sun, 01 May 2022 21:19:52 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237072#237072"]

Sarah Keir said:
Another point is that perhaps employees are less likely to consider standing for council - will their employers give them time off?

Would happily have RCVS pay the employer to assist with this - good use of retention fee. £500-1000 a day fine by me.

[/quote]

Practices don't want that money. They want the vet.

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 20:40:12 GMT

[quote userid="2122" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237070#237070"]

I've wondered quietly, internally, whether making voting an integral part of Membership would serve any useful purpose - sort of "Sign here - and VOTE" or else.

[/quote]

I didn't bother this year for the first time for many years. The reason as primarily that the presentations I read all seemed bland and trying to press the same buttons. I am also disappointed in the RCVS for the workforce summit which seemed to have been done to tick a box.

Making it compulsory will dilute those that look into the candidates and know the correct people to vote for.

Neil

RE: RCVS Council Elections

David Mills — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 20:16:28 GMT

[quote userid="9515" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237066#237066"] I agree that locums see more of practices than an employee vet.[/quote]

Yes but being an employed vet is very different than say a few weeks in a practice.

This isn't to negate locum experience - but locums should be represented by locums (and employed by employed).

I can't see why the organisations can't get involved. So there would be a tranche of 'BSAVA candidates'. say, about 8 of them. Voted for by SA practitioners. Same for farm vets, equine, referral etc etc. The vet schools have something similar. Hell, constituents have it with MPs.

[quote userid="9515" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237066#237066"]Another point is that perhaps employees are less likely to consider standing for council - will their employers give them time off?[/quote]

Would happily have RCVS pay the employer to assist with this - good use of retention fee. £500-1000 a day fine by me.

[quote userid="28687" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237065#237065"]given the turnout for a number of general elections I’m not so sure people care much about their duty to do so[/quote]

Still dwarfs the RCVS elections, GEs normally around 50-70%.

[quote userid="28687" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237065#237065"]I think you missed out “lunatic middle aged greyhound vet who writes funny stories” from that list.[/quote]

Ha yes apologies - congrats. Was just going off the RCVS council list on the website.

RE: RCVS Council Elections

George Cooper — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 12:17:12 GMT

I've wondered quietly, internally, whether making voting an integral part of Membership would serve any useful purpose - sort of "Sign here - and VOTE" or else.

Those who want to opt out would have to "spoil the paper" or whatever the electronic equivalent is - meaning that the act of NOT voting is a definite act as opposed to merely not being bothered.

I suspect that there is a technical or legal reason why it isn't acceptable.

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Sarah Keir — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 08:20:54 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237061#237061"]SA 1st opinion practitioners.[/quote]

Which are the majority of locums. As Arlo Guthrie points out, I agree that locums see more of practices than an employee vet.

Another point is that perhaps employees are less likely to consider standing for council - will their employers give them time off? Will their employer support them? I think this has a strong bearing on why there are many more self-employed and public body employed vets (vet schools etc) represented on the council.

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Olivia Cook — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:55:33 GMT

I think you missed out “lunatic middle aged greyhound vet who writes funny stories” from that list. More seriously though - given the turnout for a number of general elections I’m not so sure people care much about their duty to do so - and if this isn’t representative of the vets of this country, have you any suggestion for a selection process that would be more so? At present I can see a move towards a non-elected appointed Council on the horizon if the voter turnout stays low, and I’m not convinced that would be any improvement

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Arlo Guthrie — Sat, 30 Apr 2022 07:23:37 GMT

Thanks David Mills and Michael Woodhouse that's really interesting.

If nothing else, it reminds me that it would be useful, if I do a survey, to try and include questions which perhaps give an insight into how turnout could be improved (rather than things that it's difficult to do anything about like 'I couldn't be bothered').

Interested that you say locums are not representative (or too many of them, anyway). I would have thought that perhaps locums are more representative than GPs because they visit lots of practices and hear what all the issues are, rather than just those specific to one practice? No? Neil Wheadon, would you agree with that?

The interesting question is what would make you more inclined to vote.

One thing is clearly if the system was weighted as you suggest. That seems so blatantly common sense, that I wonder why it isn't already!

What else would make everyone more inclined to vote?

Obviously there will be some for whom a paper form would make it more likely.

What else?

Would it make much odds (and would it necessarily be a good thing) if Council members WERE allowed to represent, rather than be representative of?

Less secrecy?

Better communication about the issues that are being debated in Council (thereby perhaps increasing relevance)?

RE: RCVS Council Elections

David Mills — Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:31:59 GMT

d) for me

Look at the make up of Council on the website

Lousie Allum - RVC

Linda Belton - independent equine practitioner

Danny Chambers - self promotion

Niall Connell - U of Glasgow

Melissa Donald - Red Tractor, charity director x 2

Jo Dyer - locum

Tshidi Gardiner - wellness coaching company, some other company

Mandisa Greene - locum, Harper Adams

Stephen May - RVC

Sue Paterson - director of dermatology potions, telemedicine company

Kate Richards - academic, various

Neil Smith - govt vet, private company Rastrick Service

Colon Whiting - mobile vet

Vet school members x 3

Lay people x 6 - jobbing professor (NHS), retired brigadier, lawyer, NHS mandarin, osteopath, NHS mandarin (n2)

Vet Nurse members

Belinda Andrew-Jones - former CVS

Matthew Rendle - RVC

They just aren't relevant to me. There are more locums than GPs ffs.

Whilst we get who we vote for, there should be a weighted system that is representative of the profession, 90% of which are SA 1st opinion practitioners. It's like going to CPD where the bios are "I spent x days in the normal world" before running off to a referral centre.

They simply aren't representative.

People don't vote because it's all quite irrelevant. People vote in general elections because they care, and partly there is a historic duty to do so.

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 29 Apr 2022 20:14:07 GMT

D) I like to sit down, read manifesto and fill in the paper form. Don't think they sent them out this time (or if they did I didn't get one).

Get so many emails they were lost

RE: RCVS Council Elections

vetbl.locum — Fri, 29 Apr 2022 18:32:58 GMT

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Silvia Maldonado — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 09:09:45 GMT

Congratulations to our new elected representatives and the re-elected one

You ask why only 18.6% of RCVS vets bothered to vote? hmmm... apathy?

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Julie Innes — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:36:10 GMT

A bit of a) and c).

I always feel if I am voting I should take time to read up on the candidates, their ideas etc, and I just can't muster the enthusiasm to put my free time into that, so I don't feel then able to vote. I also don't believe anything will really change- I'm sure some of the candidates have great ideas and enthusiasm, but you know what Billy Connelly says about committees....great ideas go in, get bashed about,they all try to reach a compromise and come out with a watered down version that is of no use to any Bu**er!

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Clive Ansell — Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:26:02 GMT

I did vote and have done so every year.

If I hadn't, or choose not too in future, answer would be c)

One does wonder what is the point when only 18.5% voted, even worse for the RVN's with only around 8%

RE: RCVS Council Elections

patrick murphy — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:24:51 GMT

some a) but mostly c)

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:55:58 GMT

I might be wrong but I think we used to get a letter and email? I only got the email this year and it went into spam, but I looked for it to vote (for you Olivia as well as another). Many congratulations on your election, I think you’ve got the support of many “ordinary” practitioners rather than the corporate representatives. That was my take on it anyway.

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:17:04 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237041#237041"]I got very close to c)[/quote]

Shall we do a survey? It would be interesting to know why the numbers are so low, wouldn't it?

Do those answers cover it?

I was wondering whether a covid answer is needed - ie too busy or distracted by other things. But that's just 'I couldn't be bothered' by another name!

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Bob Russell — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 10:13:12 GMT

I got very close to c) as I believe the RCVS can act best for clients and profession alike by supporting vets to do their job effectively. Far from convinced they are.

Many vets may be happy enough to let things carry on as they are. If I could retire with some degree of security I would be gone!!

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:34:14 GMT

[quote userid="8182" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237039#237039"]This is the lowest turnout in years if not the lowest turnout ever[/quote]

Well, not the lowest ever. I searched the site and gosh, 2008, I'd only just setup VetSurgeon then: https://www.vetsurgeon.org/news/b/veterinary-news/posts/rcvs-council-amp-vn-council-election-results

But ...

[quote userid="8182" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237039#237039"]How can those elected be considered to be representative of the profession when only 18.6% of the profession bothered to vote? [/quote]

That's a fair question.

I wonder why turnout took such a hit this year.

Was it really a vote of no confidence?

Or was it apathy?

Or was it just that we've had two years of rather more pressing things on our minds than who is not going to represent you, but be representative of you! (I am not being facetious - I think it has always been hard for the College to motivate voters, when the nominees cannot represent the voters).

Hey, I have an idea. Why don't I survey everyone to find out? I think it would have to be an anonymous one? Do you agree?

Question. If you didn't vote in this year's RCVS Elections, why not?

a) I couldn't be bothered

b) I forgot

c) I consciously decided not to vote because I see no benefit in doing so.

d) Other (please specify)

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Eamon McAllister — Wed, 27 Apr 2022 09:20:52 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237038#237038"]Hmm, not quite right Eamon McAllister (sorry), the decree was that the council members are there to be representative of the profession, but not to represent it. [/quote]

How can those elected be considered to be representative of the profession when only 18.6% of the profession bothered to vote? This is the lowest turnout in years if not the lowest turnout ever and can be viewed as an overwhelming vote of no confidence in the RCVS.

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:20:01 GMT

Congratulations Olivia Cook! Your name now up in lights: https://www.vetsurgeon.org/news/b/veterinary-news/posts/sue-paterson-olivia-cook-and-abbie-calow-elected-to-rcvs-council

And that gives me an idea. I will PM you.

[quote userid="8182" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections/237037#237037"]The RCVS used to decree that you weren’t elected to represent the profession but instead simply to execute the plans and functions of the RCVS. Has anything changed?[/quote]

Hmm, not quite right Eamon McAllister (sorry), the decree was that the council members are there to be representative of the profession, but not to represent it.

So elected members are not just there to do the will of the RCVS. And actually, we've seen a couple of examples recently (although I am trying to remember the other one), where Council has done the opposite. Most recent one I can think of was putting a brake on the plans to change the standard of evidence required for DC.

What can you do for the profession? Well ... if it comes to it, oppose / vote down any plan to allow vets to provide online consultations unless backed up with physical premises.

That's one!

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Eamon McAllister — Tue, 26 Apr 2022 17:11:07 GMT

[quote userid="28687" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30277/rcvs-council-elections"]I do not know what I will be able to do for you. [/quote]

Neither do I. The RCVS used to decree that you weren’t elected to represent the profession but instead simply to execute the plans and functions of the RCVS. Has anything changed?

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Bob Russell — Tue, 26 Apr 2022 16:54:18 GMT

Just be open with the veterinary profession. RCVS secrecy (or perceived secrecy) is what is damaging confidence.

Congratulations!

RE: RCVS Council Elections

Coopers Wamae — Tue, 26 Apr 2022 16:38:19 GMT

Congratulations are in order. Truly our campaigns on here and twitter worked. You are now our 'Richard Stephenson' inside the college. Keep us updated and we will support you throughout your tenure. Cheers