Extra Bank Holiday

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Thu, 21 Apr 2022 06:05:22 GMT

The group I am working for at the moment had 4 full days off over Easter. They even didn't open the usual saturday morning surgery, and their own OOH service took over for the full 4 days. Everyone enjoyed a well deserved break and are very grateful for it.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Miriam Lodewyks — Wed, 20 Apr 2022 07:05:22 GMT

[quote userid="4747" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236988#236988"] So they love working bank holidays[/quote]

Surprise surprise!!

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Charlotte Marshall — Fri, 15 Apr 2022 18:38:04 GMT

I would expect a day off lieu but for some reason in our practice although we all get TOIL the vets do not get extra pay for working bank holiday (for example the practice opens on Good friday with reduced hours) but the nursing and reception staff do. So they love working bank holidays!

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Julie Innes — Wed, 13 Apr 2022 10:35:38 GMT

I just assumed it was an extra holiday, and have treated it as such! We close on bank holidays and hand over to our OOH. The staff tend to really appreciate a bank holiday, as do I!

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 10:33:12 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236866#236866"]Personally I take maybe 2 weeks a year and it's plenty for me. When I worked as an assistant I'd find myself pissing away a week at home just to use it up.[/quote]

You may (or may not) feel differently when your children are a little older and spend most of their days at school. Time off with them is precious.

Anyway, bank holidays can be a little different. It is an opportunity for families/friends/groups to plan activities as most people are off work. It can be really tough to miss out on these things because an employer decides they want to ignore it. (I realise OOH is a necessary evil for many, but remaining open as normal is a choice.)

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 05:57:32 GMT

[quote userid="11901" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236865#236865"]The question I’ve posed (perhaps not very clearly) is when the government decides that “the people” deserve an extra day off (29 instead of the legal 28), is it ok for veterinary employers to unilaterally ignore this and require their employees to work as normal? [/quote]

No, it's not OK (Direct answer to a direct question)

An extra days holiday has been granted, everyone should have it. Simple as that.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 05:54:14 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236868#236868"]It's pretty obvious it was intended to be an extra day.[/quote]

That's my take on it, the clue and the crux of it being in the words "Intended" and "extra" . It is meant as an extra. or additional day off to celebate the queens jubilee.

Regardless of the wording of any employment contract, I think an employer would have to be pretty mean and tight fisted to not allow or grant the extra day.

Should be enhanced pay and a day off in lieu, no question about it.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Tue, 12 Apr 2022 05:49:04 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236866#236866"]Dunno. I have to practically force staff to take all their holiday - never had anyone actually run out (and I'd be very happy moving some forwards or allowing unpaid leave). Personally I take maybe 2 weeks a year and it's plenty for me. When I worked as an assistant I'd find myself pissing away a week at home just to use it up.[/quote]

I was the opposite when I was an employed assistant, and one of the main reasons I have remained a locum since redundancy in 2001 was insufficient time off when employed. The 28 (20 + BH's) annual days off were just not enough, but the good thing was I could take extra unpaid time during quieter times. I have a keen interest in moutaineering and expedition mountaineering, so needed good blocks of time off to pursue it.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 11 Apr 2022 23:52:48 GMT

[quote userid="11901" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday"]My employer would like me to work the Jubilee Bank Holiday, which I’m happy to do, but would you expect an extra day holiday in lieu? [/quote]

Yes.

HM the Queen and Parliament decided to declare an extra public holiday this one year. It's pretty obvious it was intended to be an extra day.

Possibly nobody thought it through, or nobody thought that employers would be so mean as to insist that it was just part of the holiday allowance.

This sort of thing is why a contract stating your holiday allowance is x days (where x is at least 20) plus public holidays (not all public holidays are bank holidays, to be pedantic) is much better.

(Old fart's anecdote. Some employers have been much more generous. Geoff Parkin used to give everybody an extra day off in December – nothing contractual, he just did – to ensure they got their Christmas shopping done, in his words).

We're going to get all the flags out on what I'm sure will become known as Jubilee Day.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 11 Apr 2022 21:48:41 GMT

If the government decided as a post COVID gift to give everyone 2 extra days holiday then obviously I would respect that. It's an extra day (with Whit Monday moved) to celebrate a specific event on a specific date. If you work OOH in any capacity (not talking just vets, but everyone who does on call and 24 hour/unsocial hours) then someone has to work, and I'm not sure you taking a random extra Friday in September to a spa with the girls or a dirty weekend with your partner are really doing it for the Queen......

I feel if the government actually wanted to give everyone extra holiday then they would increase the minimum allowance to 29 days, and they havn't. Maybe I'm feeling bah humbug as I'm working at least one of the bank holidays......

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236840#236840"]These are all minimums, shouldn't hard working professionals in a stressful occupation be receiving much more for a better work-life balance though? [/quote]

Dunno. I have to practically force staff to take all their holiday - never had anyone actually run out (and I'd be very happy moving some forwards or allowing unpaid leave). Personally I take maybe 2 weeks a year and it's plenty for me. When I worked as an assistant I'd find myself pissing away a week at home just to use it up.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Miriam Lodewyks — Mon, 11 Apr 2022 20:36:57 GMT

[quote userid="19434" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236844#236844"]Surely this is a choice between being kind to your employer or being right.[/quote]

As it happens, I’m quite happy to be kind to my employer (non-corporate), but that’s beside the point.
The question I’ve posed (perhaps not very clearly) is when the government decides that “the people” deserve an extra day off (29 instead of the legal 28), is it ok for veterinary employers to unilaterally ignore this and require their employees to work as normal?

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Joyce Whitehead — Sat, 09 Apr 2022 15:33:36 GMT

We use the same method as Michael, and whoever works the BH will get a day off in lieu. We will treat this extra one the same, so not taken as holiday by the non working staff and a day off for the vet and nurse working it in place of this. No double time, the nurses get a retainer for in call plus an hourly rate for time they are actually at work.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Fri, 08 Apr 2022 19:52:17 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236842#236842"]then you are entitled to either a day off in lieu or extra pay (but not both! Let alone double pay)[/quote]

One would get both, because holiday days are paid time off. If one works a bank holiday day, then receives another day off as annual leave instead, that would be paid of course.

Michael's approach is the most straightforward. 28 days annual leave which may or maynot include bank holidays. If a bank holiday is worked, a day is taken off another time.

If I were negotiating a contract, I would want to be paid a premium for working a bank holiday (Maybe not double rates, but certainly an enhanced rate) , as well as being able to take the days leave another time.

The group I am working for at the moment, have so far not been able to find staff to cover the easter break, or the platinum jubilee break in June, certainly not the nights.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Fri, 08 Apr 2022 19:39:59 GMT

[quote userid="19434" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236844#236844"]Surely this is a choice between being kind to your employer or being right.[/quote]

How can one be kind to an employer if they are a corporate?

I wonder what our corporate paymasters and overlords will be doing on their bank holidays, but whatever it is they won't, I would bet, be beavering away at the coalface for peanuts like some of us will be?

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Guy Smith — Fri, 08 Apr 2022 11:43:00 GMT

Surely this is a choice between being kind to your employer or being right.

Or am I being unkind?

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 08 Apr 2022 01:33:34 GMT

[quote userid="11901" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236821#236821"]For clarification: I’m referring specifically to the EXTRA bank holiday for the Queen’s Jubilee… should I be expected to work it as normal and “for free” or should I expect some sort of recompense? [/quote]

Itdepends upon what your contract says. If you are entitled to x days plus Public Holidays (a common arrangement) then you are entitled to either a day off in lieu or extra pay (but not both! Let alone double pay). If you are entitled to x days including Public Holidays then I guess your employer is entitled to say the extra Jubilee day is part of your annual allowance. If he or she is enough of a tight-fisted baher chod.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Nicola Cole — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 22:41:50 GMT

Clive Ansell

Thanks!

Is a slightly historical situation, so not hugely relevant, but I just presumed if you worked then you lost them (just like weekends?!)!

P.S. I’m not an employer, just how things worked when I was a full time employee…I did wonder sometimes but ♀️

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 20:15:59 GMT

[quote userid="3685" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236839#236839"]I’d always presumed that if your job included a share of the bank holiday rota that you just forfeited those days, ie. you got 20days holiday plus whatever bank holidays you weren’t[/quote]

No.

If you are employed full time you have a minimum legal holiday entitlement of 28 days a year (It is often cited as 20 days plus bank holidays of 8 days =28 days)

Your contract may state 20 days holiday plus bank holidays. If you are required to then work a bank holiday, you are owed another day as holiday. Legal minimum, as Micheal says, is 28 days.

These are all minimums, shouldn't hard working professionals in a stressful occupation be receiving much more for a better work-life balance though?

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Nicola Cole — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 18:59:29 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236825#236825"]No change in the 28 day holiday requirement in law.[/quote]

Am curious-do you mean that if you do on call and have say a 1 in 4 bank holiday rota, that you shouldn’t ‘lose’ 2 days holiday a year? I’d always presumed that if your job included a share of the bank holiday rota that you just forfeited those days, ie. you got 20days holiday plus whatever bank holidays you weren’t working?

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 20:47:22 GMT

I think it depends on the wording of employment contract.

From an employment solicitors website.

"Entitlement to the extra bank holiday is dependent upon the wording within the particular Contract of Employment. To illustrate this, we’ve set out the following two scenarios:

Scenario 1: The Contract of Employment states “X days’ holiday, plus public and/or bank holidays”.

Under this Contract of Employment, any public and/or bank holidays are awarded on top of the employee’s annual holiday allowance and, as the Contract of Employment does not stipulate the exact number to which they are entitled, the employee will be contractually entitled to take and be paid for the extra bank holiday.

Scenario 2: The Contract of Employment states “X days’ holiday, inclusive of your public and/or bank holiday entitlement”.

Under this Contract of Employment, because the public and/or bank holidays are included within the employee’s set holiday entitlement and, because the Contract of Employment has not specified the exact number of public and/or bank holidays but has expressly shown that they are part of the employee’s set holiday entitlement, the employee would not have a contractual right to the extra bank holiday. In these circumstances, the employer is not obliged to give an extra day’s leave. Therefore, if an employee wishes to take the Platinum Jubilee bank holiday as annual leave, they would need to take a day from their existing annual leave entitlement."

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236825#236825"]No change in the 28 day holiday requirement in law.[/quote]

However, employers may wish to acknowledge the extra unique bank holiday for their employees, regardless of what is specified in their Contracts of Employment. In 2011, when the last extra bank holiday was gifted, most employers chose to grant their employees the extra day off.

I think it would be mean not to grant this as an extra day off, regardless of the legal position, given that many colleagues have had a tough time, and have often gone above and beyond recently with covid, vet shortages etc. Some well earned downtime for folk who have been doing their very best.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 19:59:46 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236823#236823"]Does that take account of the extra bank holiday day this year, which this is?[/quote]

No. Sane holiday allowance. If anything its a challenge getting people to take their holiday entitlement.

Makes no real difference as we never really close so someone will be working it, with the rest of us off. No change in the 28 day holiday requirement in law.

Over Easter we work with half staff on Good Friday and Easter Monday, otherwise closed and emergencies only.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 18:58:33 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236818#236818"]Our contract includes bank holiday as part of holiday allowance.[/quote]

Does that take account of the extra bank holiday day this year, which this is?

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Clive Ansell — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 18:56:19 GMT

[quote userid="11901" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236821#236821"]I’m referring specifically to the EXTRA bank holiday for the Queen’s Jubilee… should I be expected to work it as normal and “for free” or should I expect some sort of recompense? [/quote]

It is an extra, or additional, bank holiday, a national public holiday. It is an extra, or another day off work.

If you work it, I think you should at least receive a day off in lieu of, and ideally enhanced pay too. Double rates I would say.

If it were me, I would be asking for a day off in lieu of, and double time. Alternatively, look for somebody else to do it.

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Miriam Lodewyks — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 18:30:43 GMT

For clarification: I’m referring specifically to the EXTRA bank holiday for the Queen’s Jubilee… should I be expected to work it as normal and “for free” or should I expect some sort of recompense?

RE: Extra Bank Holiday

Julian Earl — Wed, 06 Apr 2022 17:41:20 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30259/extra-bank-holiday/236818#236818"]t saves remembering days owed etc and simplifies things.[/quote]

Yes Michael, a key point indeed! Toi always remember /kerep a record of days owed so that you do have enough time for your own interests and pleasures!! Thanks on behalf of everyone for that point I think?!!