What do we think of this? De-extinction?

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Julian Earl — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 15:43:16 GMT

Thanks Lucy,

Sadly you make several valid points:

1. Whre will these species live and more importantly survive for their future? Especially if we do manage to actually recreate a dinosaur of some description. I'd offer our small valley here if they needed it as long as it was not a voracious predator of some description! Plus they would have to putin the appropriate fences/barriers , just in case!! TIA!!

2. The narrow genetic base for any species revived!!

But seriously. dinosaurs ere never " meant" to co-exist with humans or any other dominant mammal species either werethey? Just look what happened in Michael Crichton's world!! That did not end happily... IIRC?

Thank s again, interesting points! having just watch David Attenborough's programme the other day about the very last days of the dinosaurs and the fact that all non-avian dinosaurs were wiped out, perhaps Jurassic Park is not such an absurd concept for some after all? If we could find somewhere safe to keep them? Not sure London zo would be adequate??

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Lucy Fleming — Thu, 07 Apr 2022 11:45:58 GMT

An interesting point about the unexpected consequences of species extinction, but the way I see it there's two (well, more than two, but...) major practical issues to re-establishing a species:
1) The conditions under which the species was able to sustainably exist (be they climate, habitat, contact with people etc) almost certainly don't exist any more, and more likely the conditions under which their numbers dwindled to nothing still do (ok, perhaps we can persuade people not to hunt and eat the dodo to re-extinction, but I'm still not sure their 18th century habitat will still exist).
2) Already one of the biggest ongoing threats to a lot of endangered species is the genetic "pinch" created by population decline. Surely this will be even worse if we try to re-establish a species from the tiny amount of genetic material that still exists?

So can we bring individual dodos back from the dead? Sounds like maybe yes. Can we really bring the species back from extinction? I suspect not. Or at least not for long.

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Julian Earl — Tue, 05 Apr 2022 12:12:32 GMT

Thankyou Neil for that very interesting information! And rather challenging as well, are I suggest? Were Mammoths and Mastodons so plentiful that the whole surface was being compressed? How did their effect compare with the dinosaurs, also often rather heavy and a lot of tons plodding around, albeit not in Arctic conditions! Worthy of more research I suspect? Thanks again for this input!

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 05 Apr 2022 10:26:41 GMT

[quote userid="2131" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30236/what-do-we-think-of-this-de-extinction/236792#236792"]Very silly indeed. What's the point? Other than "just to see if we can".[/quote]

There is a fair amount of research going into compression of the soil in the arctic tundra by Wooly Mammoths. The theory is that compaction reduces the release of greenhouse gases.

The key phrase of the reference below is

As the Pleistocene epoch drew to a close, woolly mammoths and other large grazing animals that once populated the northern steppe disappeared. Grasses and herbs that previously sustained the herds of the mammoth steppe gave way to less productive types of flora, such as slow-growing mosses, shrubs, and larch trees. Lumbering across the landscape, large herbivores previously played a key role in compacting and dispersing layers of snow. In the absence of these species, the frigid temperatures of northern winters are less effective in penetrating the soil than they once were. This, paired with warmer summer temperatures, threaten to speed up the melting of the region’s permafrost, which, in turn, will accelerate the release of methane. The degradation of the Arctic permafrost threatens to release some 1,400 gigatons of methane into the stratosphere, which would be catastrophic from a climate change perspective given methane’s potent warming qualities. “That would be an extremely inconvenient truth because it dwarfs the 10 gigatons per year that all humans use and abuse combined,” Church said.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/09/04/woolly-mammoth-russia-us-relations/

In essence climate change is down to people meddling with the ecosystem

Neil

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Richard Carter — Tue, 05 Apr 2022 06:59:32 GMT

Reverse some of the damage we as humans have intentionally and unintentionally done in our quest for survival and then ‘success’?

Bit like finding out Britain should be a forested county but those ancestors were pretty good at chopping down trees

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 23:40:12 GMT

[quote userid="3094" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30236/what-do-we-think-of-this-de-extinction"]Just how daft an idea is it?[/quote]

Very silly indeed. What's the point? Other than "just to see if we can".

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Julian Earl — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 16:35:33 GMT

Thanks for that reply Groovejet, Ihave long been a supportrer of a sanctuary in South Africa, Sebakwe lack rhino Trust run by John Gripper UK-Vet as I recall. It would be catastrophic for the species if they failed. So Yes I think we can but hope/pray for the best and educate the Oriental Nations about taking keratin as a medicine!!

Thanks again..!

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Miriam Lodewyks — Mon, 04 Apr 2022 15:58:35 GMT

I think it’s a great idea!
I’ve just returned from South Africa, super depressed about the sad fact that the “wild rhino” that used to roam the Kruger Park in their thousands are as good as extinct.
Given that this is the second time within a century that this species has nearly been annihilated I can’t help but think that preserving it’s DNA might be the only chance of preserving the species until Eastern Cultures can be re-educated about the properties of it’s horn.

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Julian Earl — Sun, 20 Mar 2022 18:39:00 GMT

Maybe so Bevs for the Thylacine but I can see the |Dodo going ahead sooner possibly being a simpler process? I wish them luckfor all specess is that they try to revive!

TTFN!

[quote userid="12274" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30236/what-do-we-think-of-this-de-extinction/236673#236673"] Pipe dream in our lifetime, I suspect.[/quote]

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

bevs2251 — Sat, 19 Mar 2022 20:41:59 GMT

Hi Julian. If we can revive the Thylacine, might help with our enormous feral species problem here in Oz. Another top predator (only other is the Dingo) to deal with feral cats, foxes, rabbits, goats, deer, wild dogs, and the list goes on. Would need them in all of Oz, not just Tasmania. Pipe dream in our lifetime, I suspect.

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Julian Earl — Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:19:46 GMT

[quote userid="12274" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30236/what-do-we-think-of-this-de-extinction/236662#236662"] of reviving the Tasmanian Tiger from DNA. Last one died in an Autralian zoo in 1936.[/quote]

Thank you Bevs,I had Not heard about that one yet, but that would be a good one. The downside toall this if any, is that we, the humans may think we have a get-out clause for environmental destruction and species annihilation? Far better to just leave them all safe in the first place! I do keep thinking of the dinosaur options though. Although the Jurassic Park -type disaster must be avoided, iI find it an irresistible idea at the thought of seeing these creatures i the flesg hand not just CGI on a movie screen! A long as they stay away from or little valley here in Lincolnshire?!But surely we could/will[??] find secluded areas to keep them and keep us all safe? Just not in our secluded valley here, 20-25 miles from the nearest cities please!! I get so thrilled seeing " Red Kites around here. once nearly extinct of course in the 1980s and 1990s yet now thriving so I can only guess how exciting it would be to see eg a Pteranodon gliding by one day, all 25 feet wingspan of it!! I

Thanks for humouring me!!

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

bevs2251 — Fri, 18 Mar 2022 23:49:25 GMT

There is talk of reviving the Tasmanian Tiger from DNA. Last one died in an Autralian zoo in 1936.

RE: What do we think of this? De-extinction?

Laura Kidd — Thu, 17 Mar 2022 12:52:48 GMT

This made me smile, Julian! Would be fabulous to see a real live Dodo. Less excited about a dinosaur although I suspect my son would have shared your excitement for that!