Electric cars

RE: Electric cars

Julian Earl — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 17:47:46 GMT

True up to a point Clive I thik, but as our Economics lecturer toldus yonks ago...: There is only one rule you need to understand about economics for anything...: SUPPLY AND DEMAND! So as gasand oil supplies fall, the demand for those remaining vehicles will be high and a igher price. With electrics, the demand will be greater as the fossil fuel does gradually disappear from the market. Due to environmental concerns or whatever? I do see your option of a day-to-dayvehicleplus arental log-trip option. Of corse, people think I was tongue in cheek re the bicycle-choice but it fits in with that opion very well. Like I have practsed for the last, what? 45 years! Worksfor me. Even long-distance tripsare good if well-prepared ofcourse!! No tongue in cheek there now!!

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Tue, 08 Mar 2022 08:26:22 GMT

[quote userid="11901" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236387#236387"]Driving costs money, I just accept that, and fuel prices are rocketting whichever way you look at it[/quote]

Also, overtime, I suppose the cost of fossil road fuel will rise exponentially as demand decreases, and taxation likely increases.

Maybe another was forward is to own or lease an electric vehicle as a day to day run around, but hire a larger fossil fuel car for longer journeys and holidays.

RE: Electric cars

Miriam Lodewyks — Sun, 06 Mar 2022 19:57:24 GMT

I’m considering getting a small electric car for commuting (Corsa or 308-e). I live about 10m from town and 15m from my work, but we’ll have a diesel for longer drives.
my sister’s already switched and she loves her 3008-e, she also loves not having to go to filling stations but just plugging into a socket in her garage every night.
I think I might look into leasing, seems a simple way to drive a car you like without the hassle of buying and selling at either end. Driving costs money, I just accept that, and fuel prices are rocketting whichever way you look at it, so might as well support the option that encourages investment into renewables energy…?

RE: Electric cars

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 06 Mar 2022 18:27:12 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236338#236338"]

Do you know why?

Interested, because I am looking at replacing my car and at the moment I'm tied 50:50 with believing all the propoganda media BS about electric cars, or going with my gut that tells me to get another diesel one.

[/quote]

Is a qualified accountant and bought electric when working in Manchester. Made sense with tax. Getting on a bit and moved back to the country, so charging harder. Wants to tow. Discoveries are really nice cars (I have 2 D4s.....)

RE: Electric cars

Alastair Welch — Sun, 06 Mar 2022 14:44:11 GMT

Interesting section on More or Less this week. Producing an EV 'costs' about 30-40% more in terms of greenhouse gas emissions compared to the manufacture of an internal combustion version. This is offset by improved performance (in terms of greenhouse gas emission) by two years of motoring (based on US averages). In the UK where more electricity is produced by a non-fossil fuel source but we drive smaller distances the figure is apparently 3 years. If you have a low emission diesel car then I assuming that you re likely to sell it to someone with an older (less low emission) car and so on. If you swap to an EV then somewhere at the end of the chain a knackered old inefficient highly polluting vehicle is scrapped/recycled.

There is a shortage of electricity such that if everyone swapped tomorrow the grid would fall down but I'm pretty sure there will be a gradual but inexorable improvement in the infrastructure. Battery technology will improve and charging speed will improve- I doubt it will ever be as quick (in terms of miles in the 'tank') as simply filling up with diesel but it will become far closer.

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Sun, 06 Mar 2022 08:48:25 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236334#236334"]The only person who I knew personally with an electric car has just got rid for a new, diesel, Discovery sport.[/quote]

Do you know why?

RE: Electric cars

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 06 Mar 2022 00:27:20 GMT

The only person who I knew personally with an electric car has just got rid for a new, diesel, Discovery sport.

RE: Electric cars

grumpyoldman — Sat, 05 Mar 2022 08:20:35 GMT

We had a Tesla R3 two years ago and I am replacing my E class estate with an étron . My wife hates garages and the Tesla goes like a bullit . It’s great . At work so far one of the vets has had a Hyundai which is working well for her and the manager has a Ford Mustang electric , he thinks wonderful . Three other vets have on order a golf 1D4 a Skoda equip and another hyundai . They are all leased we have charging points at all the surgeries . The tax advantages for the vets are massive with both at work charging and no payment in kind tax . HMRC will start to follow the money with this but not yet so there is a massive window of opportunity. Insurance is also alot cheaper .

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Fri, 04 Mar 2022 11:53:28 GMT

[quote userid="3094" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236252#236252"]Of course there is one other, obvious transport solution for many of the issues,? Bicycles of course?? Not thsat I am biased of course, but problem solved, overnight No??[/quote]

Good idea, but my 400 mile trips to Scotland would take all day, and I would struggle to get a peak in as well.

[quote userid="3094" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236252#236252"]Interesting clive, itr realy true. Does it drain the system so much more than everyone watching TVC/on computers/ lights on etc., etc? I guess it could do but I would expect us to find the solution somehow.[/quote]

I don't know really, but I guess there is a finite supply of electricity in any area. It would be a huge demand if lots of households started using fast charge points at similar times. I think they are about 7 kw/h.

RE: Electric cars

Julian Earl — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 18:34:36 GMT

Interesting clive, itr realy true. Does it drain the system so much more than everyone watching TVC/on computers/ lights on etc., etc? I guess it could do but I would expect us to find the solution somehow. A shame really.Of course there is one other, obvious transport solution for many of the issues,? Bicycles of course?? Not thsat I am biased of course, but problem solved, overnight No??

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 15:35:25 GMT

A friend who is having his house rewired, says his electrician told him that if everyone in the immediate area gets an electric car and they all charge them in the evening, there would not be sufficient supply and the infrastructure would not support it. It is being upgraded, but this is a project over years not months.

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 13:13:35 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236228#236228"]I am not convinced of the environmental benefits if you live in the country, though if you live in London I can see the benefit of transferring the fumes from cities to a power station somewhere. [/quote]

That's my take on it too.

I have a very low emissions diesel car, that is properly maintained, and covers about 18000 miles a year. If I exchanged it for an all electric one, I don't see that it would benefit the environment much at all - when one factors in old car disposal, not all electricity is produced carbon free, and the environmental impact of making and disposing of lithium ion batteries.

My partner and my mother only cover about 5000 miles a year, so again the benefit to the environment of going electric would be almost nil.

I read somewhere that only about 2-3 % of all heavy oil (Diesel) consumed is in cars, the remaining 97% in buses, lorries, trains and the largest amount in ships. Therefore, unless all of these other vehicles are taken out of commission or become electric one of us buying an electric car will make square root of FA difference.

RE: Electric cars

cairncross — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 13:09:19 GMT

According to client who works in local Ford garage they have waiting list 3500 people long and other makes similar

RE: Electric cars

cairncross — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 13:08:26 GMT

According to client who works there our local Ford Garage has waiting list 3500 people long and other makes similar

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:58:09 GMT

[quote userid="12375" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236239#236239"]You need a Mercedes’ EQS.[/quote]

Would love one, looks a nice piece of kit. I'll put it on my Christmas list

RE: Electric cars

Alastair Welch — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:51:11 GMT

Clive,

You need a Mercedes’ EQS.

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:36:16 GMT

[quote userid="12375" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236227#236227"]Journey is about 390 miles. About 7.5 hrs if you don’t stop. Our children are still young ish so usually stop twice each for about 30-45 minutes so before ev would be 8.5-9 hrs.
Car charges at between 1.5-3.5 miles per minute (depending on the charger, how many other people are charging) . Leave home fully charged and aim to stop twice for an hour each time.[/quote]

Too slow, and would not really be workable for me. I normally drive non stop and eat on the move. If I do stop, it would only be for 10 or 15 minutes.

To make maximum use of time off and weather windows, I usually leave home about 4am, and can take in a peak, scramble or a climb somewhere on route on that first day. If I had to stop to recharge I would lose that day. Same on the journey home, would want to get in another peak or a climb.

RE: Electric cars

Julian Earl — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 11:28:11 GMT

[quote userid="12375" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236227#236227"]Our children are still young ish so usually stop twice e[/quote]

Well,let's be honest! They were youg hen you starte dweremn't they?/ Sorry but someone had to say it!!

RE: Electric cars

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 09:08:06 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236222#236222"]I don't think the technology is there yet with fully electric cars; ranges are short (I sometimes drive to Scotland, 400 miles to Fort William), and national charging infrastructure isn't yet anywhere near adequate. Also, with the spirraling cost of electricity charging isn't going to be cheap (I recently looked at a fully electic Audi, and a full charge at today's prices is about £17. This will increase of course). Then there are cost, lifespan, and an environmental question marks over the production and disposal of lithium ion batteries. [/quote]

I looked at this not so long ago, and that's what I concluded.

But out of curiosity, I went to look at the price of Etrons. They start at £62K and top out at £95K. The equivalent petrol model, the Q8, starts at £70K and tops out at 91K. That surprised me (I thought the Q8 would be significantly cheaper).

I am not convinced of the environmental benefits if you live in the country, though if you live in London I can see the benefit of transferring the fumes from cities to a power station somewhere.

And I think you're more likely to suffer range anxiety living in the country than if you live in London.

So I'm going to try and make my current cars last it out. And if the tech hasn't improved in a few years, then I'll probably get another used petrol car.

RE: Electric cars

Alastair Welch — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:39:47 GMT

Journey is about 390 miles. About 7.5 hrs if you don’t stop. Our children are still young ish so usually stop twice each for about 30-45 minutes so before ev would be 8.5-9 hrs.
Car charges at between 1.5-3.5 miles per minute (depending on the charger, how many other people are charging) . Leave home fully charged and aim to stop twice for an hour each time. On the way up it was busy and had to wait for a charger on one occasion so in total just over 9 hrs but not that much more than when we used fossil fuel. Is much slower if you want to do 400 miles without stopping.
etron cost depends on the spec.

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 08:07:46 GMT

[quote userid="12375" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30217/electric-cars/236223#236223"]A trip home to Scotland at Christmas involved a bit of planning and the acceptance that the journey will be longer than the equivalent in a fossil fuel car.[/quote]

How long was the journey, and how long did it take? Did you manage to recharge easily?

Isn't a new E-tron about £60k?

RE: Electric cars

Alastair Welch — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 07:55:16 GMT

We have an e-tron with a pod point at home. The genuine mileage is 200-220 depending on temperature (suspect it might be a bit lower if it were to get really cold) and for almost every journey it’s fine. A trip home to Scotland at Christmas involved a bit of planning and the acceptance that the journey will be longer than the equivalent in a fossil fuel car. I don’t think we’ll buy another fossil fuel car.

Currently I drive a diesel for work but contemplating getting a second e-tron.

RE: Electric cars

Clive Ansell — Thu, 03 Mar 2022 07:32:42 GMT

I've had a quick look, because I need too replace my ageing Audi A3.

I don't think the technology is there yet with fully electric cars; ranges are short (I sometimes drive to Scotland, 400 miles to Fort William), and national charging infrastructure isn't yet anywhere near adequate. Also, with the spirraling cost of electricity charging isn't going to be cheap (I recently looked at a fully electic Audi, and a full charge at today's prices is about £17. This will increase of course). Then there are cost, lifespan, and an environmental question marks over the production and disposal of lithium ion batteries.

I went to an evening presentation about 2 years ago given by JLR on thier new e-pace fully electic cars; they said the same thing - not quite there yet with the technology, give it 5 - 10 years. That's straight from the horse's mouth, one of the senior JLR tech guys.

I'm not sold on hybrid cars at all. They are expensive, and most actually have a poorer fuel economy than my exisiting diesel car, which will return 60mpg if driven carefully and kept below 70mph. There may be tax advantages buying hybrids, but I don't know I haven't looked.

For now, I think I will stick with modern well maintained fossil fuel engines, which have improved massively in terms of fuel efficiency and environment pollution.

RE: Electric cars

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 02 Mar 2022 23:07:40 GMT

I’ve got an Audi Q5 hybrid. So plugs in, first 35 miles or so totally electric then hybrid after that. As we live rurally this works well for me. Not many public charging points locally so I charge at home (we have a pod point installed outside the house), and I do quite a few short journeys for visits, dog walks, supermarket etc . I average about 65mpg in it. We also take it on holidays, usually Scotland, and often then just use it without plug in if not available where we are. I have a dog crate in the boot easily big enough for a border collie (fits our 3 small dogs) with room beside for some storage. I wasn’t quite ready to commit to full electric as the infrastructure isn’t quite sorted around here yet.

RE: Electric cars

niamhjl — Wed, 02 Mar 2022 22:43:12 GMT

I have a Nissan Leaf, which I love! It is quite big and spacious. We just charge it overnight on a cable hanging through a window to a normal 3 pin plug inside, although we do keep talking about installing a proper charger - this works for us. Fully charged the range is about 140 miles.