What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 19:25:19 GMT

I make a huge point of not interacting with our work Facebook presence - don't check google reviews either. I'm always fully booked. the unhappy folk are not missed, and I'm not wasting my energies worrying about them

Corporate wise, Facebook is considered highly important but more for puppy /kitten cuteness, lost pets, strays and heart wrenching tales of pet bravery

which is fine by me so long as someone else deals with it

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 18:28:30 GMT

[quote userid="28673" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235719#235719"] I also feel there’s a popularity contest perhaps greater fuelled by social media. Does anyone else feel this?[/quote]

Jenny Tu - Gosh, one reads so much about the harmful effects of the social media popularity contest on young people, it had never occurred to me that it was a phenomenon in consumer/client-facing businesses. But of course.

If by any chance you subscribe to The Times, a great article by Giles Coren the other day predicting the demise of Facebook, after its share price went down 25%. Here's the link: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/weve-hit-peak-digital-now-its-time-to-turn-back-xgzrnr7nl

Here's a shared link which I think only works for the first few people to click: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/649f4fd8-85d8-11ec-b939-57ea9f594ba1?shareToken=3d0539652cd8dedf032824a80032f2de

I think he may have a point.

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

jd2008 — Tue, 08 Feb 2022 01:32:45 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235738#235738"]You're lucky if you've never worked alongside people like this - I can assure you our profession has them too.[/quote]

Oh believe me, I've encountered them in clinical practice too . My impression, though, is that they are generally rarer. I was quite taken aback upon entering the non-clinical workforce to discover just how many people seem to have survived, quite comfortably, in a working environment with the interpersonal skills of Atilla the Hun.

I think we perhaps also don't appreciate the mobility we have in vet med. If you find yourself in a position that's become untenable because of the people you work with, you can find another job with relative ease. And it's always been this way, to a greater or lesser extent, since I graduated in the early '90s. A lot of the non-vet workforce don't have this luxury.

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 22:50:43 GMT

[quote userid="2180" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235736#235736"]In larger work environments these people can thrive and make life abject misery for those who have to interact with them professionally. [/quote]

You're lucky if you've never worked alongside people like this - I can assure you our profession has them too.

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

jd2008 — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 21:03:37 GMT

[quote userid="28673" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235719#235719"]There is however, an extra emotional stress dimension that I think doesn’t exist in fields outside the care industries[/quote]

I'm not sure we can rank the various sources of stress in terms of severity' each job has it's own blend of stressors and they can be sever in the non-caring professions too.

One thing that I didn't appreciate during my clinical life was that the truly terrible clients usually had jobs of their own. Imagine having to work alongside these people and be exposed to their own, special blend of cluster B personality disorders day in, day out. At least as clients you can (hopefully) sack them, and in the small general practice environment, new hires who turn out to be complete a*rseholes are usually weeded out or knocked into shape pretty quickly.

In larger work environments these people can thrive and make life abject misery for those who have to interact with them professionally. Unless they're dumb enough to commit overt sexual harassment, or their conduct falls neatly into an "ism", they can't be sacked. You can't legislate against bullying, continual passive-aggressive obstruction, our plain and nasty vindictiveness. If anyone is bold enough to call these types out on their behaviour they invariably turn the tables and make various claims against their accuser while promptly going on 'stress leave'. For HR, they are an utter b*ll ache so are generally left to their own devices. Working with these types day in day out and knowing you have no escape can be phenomenally stressful. Every email has to be carefully composed and proofread x number of times, every meeting carefully planned in advance with one on one face-to-face interactions avoided at all costs.

It's not much of a choice, but I'd rather deal with clients, even the really obnoxious ones

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Jenny Tu — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 15:45:58 GMT

in response to previous posts;

I really click with the point about interesting workload and sometimes feeling wrung out.

Also I hope that if or when an opportunity present itself, I will recognise it as such at the time, rather than after it has passed.

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Jenny Tu — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 15:44:04 GMT

[quote userid="3685" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235722#235722"]A popularity contest between clinical vets? Genuinely interested as to how social media fuels that? I’m confused![/quote]

Clients often have favourites and I understand that. I think it’s always been that way. I’m sure I have favourites elsewhere. So some would say that social media constantly has those preferences at the forefront. This can affect how valued, or not, a person feels as a member of staff, despite the quality or quantity of work they do.

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 10:18:23 GMT

[quote userid="11590" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235723#235723"]Maybe it would suit me. After the raisin discussion have realised I’m quite a by the book type and that this is not how many people operate. [/quote]

Take this the right way, but if you are a person that can follow the rules then this may be an ideal job

During FMD there were 2 of us who would analyse the operations manual looking for nuance of language and exploit that. So for example we had cattle stuck in muddy fields because they couldn't be moved by road. However no body said that you couldn't break a hedge down. I was frequently told to 'leave my brain at home and stop thinking about it'. Ultimately that's the reason I left.

The people that really did well were those that would follow the rules but did have a little leeway, understanding that it's not black and white, though in AHVLA it can be prescriptive so that everyone sings from the same hymn sheet which can be a good thing especially if you are new.

Neil

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Bibs — Mon, 07 Feb 2022 09:28:39 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235721#235721"]

it definately suited one, you knew the answer before you asked it as he played with a totally straight bat.

[/quote]

Maybe it would suit me. After the raisin discussion have realised I’m quite a by the book type and that this is not how many people operate. Maybe I need it look at government jobs!

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Nicola Cole — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 21:24:26 GMT

[quote userid="28673" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235719#235719"]I also feel there’s a popularity contest perhaps greater fuelled by social media.[/quote]

A popularity contest between clinical vets? Genuinely interested as to how social media fuels that? I’m confused!

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 20:54:40 GMT

I did AHVLA for 9 years part time returning to full time locumming (though did some locumming whilst working for AHVLA)

I left practice primarily as I was dealt a very bad hand 1 month before FMD hit, and was asked to stay, which I did and it suited very well in regards child care

I returned to practice for a variety of reasons.

1) Boredom

I dealt with TB. After the first 600 investigations you've kind off done that

2) Inflexibility

I was motivated by helping farmers under restriction. I would split herds into epidaemeological groups to target test the groups affected by TB rather than the whole hered. In the last year a change was in the air, regulations dictated that the entire herd had to be tested, no splitting. In effect I would be another drone in the firld. I met various charactor types, it definately suited one, you knew the answer before you asked it as he played with a totally straight bat.

3) Line management

Much more evident in industry. I got lucker, then lucky then fell in with a vet who started with 12 vets and ended with 3, all the others left or were transferred. In a company you have less choices to get away from these charactor types

I got the impression that the vets I worked with wouldn't do well in practice and they had found their own very comfortable niche. Some thrived, others were waiting for a pension, however the hours were great, but ultimately for me you only get one chance at life

Would I do it again.... yes, FMD was an absolute blast, tiring and stressful but like the first 3 years in practice doing fire brigade large animal work it was an experience.

I read an article in the Sunday Times last year, all about regret. Regret at not trying something. If you get the chance, try it, you can always return as I did

Neil

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Bibs — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 18:23:37 GMT

I know what you mean about the popularity contest aspect. Sometimes even amongst colleagues in certain practices there is an element of personalty and showmanship above just knowing your stuff.This is something I have always struggled with because I'm not really into that even though I'm very friendly and calm, I don't make a fuss of people.. I worked as a product export vet for a few months and that was for sure less stressful. I found dealing with people who were also "at work" completely different. If I had to tell them they could not export something because it had, for example, chicken from a bird flu zone in the product - they would just take it off the lorry and accept it. It wasn't a personal trauma for them. It was still stressful in it's own way - in that I found reading the legislation like wading through treacle, but for sure I didn't feel any trepidation going to do the job. It just wasn't super easy for me to engage with the knowledge that I needed to gain. With clinical work I'm really interested in the knowledge and love soaking it up but I often feel rung out by the actual job.

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Jenny Tu — Sun, 06 Feb 2022 17:34:01 GMT

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I love to hear others’ stories. I entered from another industry and agree, there is stress in every role. This field has brought me far more job satisfaction than anything else; both intellectually and through shear variety. There is however, an extra emotional stress dimension that I think doesn’t exist in fields outside the care industries. I also feel there’s a popularity contest perhaps greater fuelled by social media. Does anyone else feel this?

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

jd2008 — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 22:08:01 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235669#235669"]I don't know why folk think that the veterinary profession has a monopoly on stress, other professions and occupations have it too.[/quote]

Exactly this.
I've worked in academia for the past 10+ years and, for most of those, in a field related to vet med not vet med itself. I always chuckle when I hear vets on other forums wondering how they can get into "academia" or "research" because they're finding clinical practice too stressful and the hours too long.

It's easy to forget just how well-controlled workload is in clinical practice. Yes, really. If you think about it, the vast majority of that workload is dictated, and hence limited by, the number of cases presenting to the clinic on any given day. In short, it's a task-based workload. That's not to say that it can't get woefully out of hand, of course. Many, many other roles, though, are either solely or heavily responsibility-based which means the sky's the limit as far as actual workload is concerned. My position description is suitably vague and translates as a requirement to keep several crucial plates spinning at once, 24/7/365...or else

I could never take my work home with me in vet med. Now I routinely work into the evenings, through weekends and during annual leave to meet the demands and deadlines that are an inherent part of my position.

In larger organisations like academia, you're also at the mercy of the various, inexplicable whims of other departments and batsh*t crazy 'initiatives' of senior management. Restructures and the resultant uncertainty and upheaval are commonplace. Smack bang in the middle of the pandemic, when everyone was on their knees with workloads through the roof, our illustrious leadership team decided, as their latest initiative, that every single one of us should spend a week tidying our work areas. It didn't matter how neat and tidy someone's desk was, it had to be spartan; paperwork, files, pens, boxes and, apparently, signs of life, had to be hidden from sight. A colleague was visited unannounced by someone - in a hi-vis vest, I kid you not - who showed him how his books should be arranged on his shelves. Apparently having any of them sitting at an angle wasn't tidy enough. This is not a joke. This type of pointless, demoralising, micromanagement is the norm in many. many other workplaces and particularly popular in academia. If you think you've encountered terrible management in vet med, the rest of the working world would like you to hold its beer.

To be honest, though, I don't miss vet med enough to want to go back. I do miss having some indication that I'm doing an OK job. In my type of role, no one ever says "thank you", "well done" or even "you're doing an OK job". My only barometer is how many people are hassling me for things at any one time and the knowledge that we haven't had a visit from various, ominous government departments. Yet. Performance reviews never review performance, rather they serve as an excuse to expand workload for the coming year. I can't look at the dog who got better after my treatment or the neat suture line at the end of surgery and feel "that went OK" . I miss the heartfelt "thank yous" from clients and knowing that I've made a tangible difference to a few animal and human lives every day.

But I very much doubt I'll go back. I transitioned my career into a related field via the postgrad degree route some years back and this is a much better fit for me, intellectually. I'm a single-point dependency so, that sucks but my job is secure. And I'm settled in a beautiful part of the world. The local practices are very basic GP so not particularly appealing work-wise. Lastly, heading into the last decade of my working life, the pension plan where I am is much better than I'd get elsewhere.

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Julian Earl — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 18:32:30 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/30179/what-s-it-like-on-the-other-side/235669#235669"]My step daughter is a lawyer and her work seems, to me, incredible demanding and stressful, far more than being a vet.[/quote]

My sister and my best mate are both teachers and I reckon they have very stressful lives as well. A lot of pressure for sure!! For me, I loved working with the animals and even with someof the humans, [ butnot all I'm afraid!!], involved as well..., Heck I even married a Veterinary Nurse from the Practice if you need any proof?

But I hted the running a business aspects, Not my cup of tea at all. I am glad to be [ early-] retitred even if my route into his was not quite the one I would have chosen, thank you!! This emoticon is actually me with he bandage on my head perhaps?! Even if it very nearly represents the outcome of my head-butting the kerbstone t 30-35mph!!

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Clive Ansell — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 11:09:11 GMT

I don't know why folk think that the veterinary profession has a monopoly on stress, other professions and occupations have it too.

I entered veterinary as an older "mature" student. My background was agriculture, mainly dairy and beef, and then international road haulage with a brief period in junior management. Road haulage can be very stressful and demanding; targets and deadlines to meet - The point is all/most occulations have an element of stress

My step daughter is a lawyer and her work seems, to me, incredible demanding and stressful, far more than being a vet.

I still really enjoy the actual veterinary subject and animal contact, but I can't stand having to deal with the general public day to day and their abject stupidity, which is to me stressful.

RE: What’s it like on the ‘other side’?

Andreas Ege — Thu, 03 Feb 2022 11:08:00 GMT

Haven't left and returned but used to work for 3 years in a research lab before going into general practice, and later for 3 months part time as supervising vet at an abattoir (both in Germany).

Nice part of the lab work was it paid better than general practice in Germany, nobody cared when I started or stopped work as long as my work was done and results achieved, easier to be off sick as only your work would suffer but wouldn't put increased demands on colleagues. Depending on experiments, there would be the odd night or week-end work, but one had a high degree of control when that would be. Just wasn't for me, it was ok as a job but spending days and weeks working before you see any results or drawing a blank didn't work for me. Add to that a lack of ambition to drive my career I rather went into general practice and, most of the time anyway, haven't regretted it.

Similar with the abattoir job. Paid better than my full time practice job for 3 nights of work a night, but big part of the job was going around actively looking for people making mistakes (on purpose or by accident), and while that's important and unfortunately necessary to safeguard welfare and hygiene, it's not something I enjoy.