What are the bad things about being a vet?

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

cairncross — Wed, 10 Nov 2021 21:36:46 GMT

Sorry only spotting ypur response now. My point was that as my clients part time wage doesnt make their ends meet then i cant extract enough from them to pay staff enough to make ends meet on part time hours either. If veterinary isnt making their life sustainible then other options become viable or tempting. If vet wage gets you a house sustains family or lifestyle ypu are likeky to stay if it its only half achieving this you will look elsewhere for job or lifestyle.

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233891#233891"]make[/quote]

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Bob Russell — Tue, 09 Nov 2021 14:33:25 GMT

Not sure it is grotty, just out of date even back in the 80's. I probably would have enjoyed it had it been a group of us.

I felt like a survivor rather than feeling nostalgic.

We got through the course rather than enjoying the experience.

Good to see that the Easter Bush set up is more suitable. I did not get the chance to see it first hand.

Perhaps the 'Dick Vet' should get a few graduates (various ages) to talk to present students about the 'old days' and be honest with views about the veterinary world and the over use of the threat from the DC!

The food was rank but I found the 'wifeys' cheerful.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

bob lehner — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 17:32:27 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233829#233829"]Went round Summerhall and could not believe the stress and anxiety I felt after 35 years. I[/quote]

I went round after about 40 years - couldn't believe how small and grotty it was!

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233829#233829"]I almost queued up outside the anatomy lecture theatre and sort of expected familiar faces to appear from behind closed doors .[/quote]

Me too. In my day the anatomy lecturers were largely 'characters' (a.k.a. alcoholics). One old boy used to stagger through the door, lurch across the lecture hall until he could grab the lectern to keep himself upright - then start an incoherent lecture.

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233829#233829"] Is vet school a gentler experience nowadays?[/quote]

Did you by any chance go to the new Easter Bush set-up? Quite amazing. I had lunch in the very fancy student dining hall. In the old days at Summerhall you queued up for a distinctly rank pie and chips dolloped out by a grumpy old Edinburgh 'wifey'. Now the students have the choice of all manner of different and exotic cuisines - salad bar/pizza/oriental/street food/ etc etc...! A sea of young women with the occasional bloke dotted about...

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Bob Russell — Fri, 05 Nov 2021 14:42:11 GMT

Not really directly on topic but are we screwed up before we start our first job?

Brought my wife to Edinburgh (there now) to revisit a few haunts and do the touristy things I failed to do when living here

Went round Summerhall and could not believe the stress and anxiety I felt after 35 years. It is almost unchanged apart from a bit of art on the walls and better coffee

I almost queued up outside the anatomy lecture theatre and sort of expected familiar faces to appear from behind closed doors .

I remember having quite a lot of fun but clearly an anxiety attack does not show it was that good.

Very odd week and not sure it was that good an idea. Is vet school a gentler experience nowadays?

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Jill Butterworth — Tue, 02 Nov 2021 18:22:18 GMT

I would have been tempted to say I'd had a drink and couldn't do it!! There's no RCVS obligation if not on call...that said, I probably would have had a quick look in reality.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Julian Earl — Tue, 02 Nov 2021 15:51:51 GMT

[quote userid="7811" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233769#233769"]People. in general :). [/quote]

Gt it in one Julie!! Nnot much wrong working with the animals, it is just the humans associated withthem! Plus running a business is not always much fun?

Look o the bright side as much as possible!

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Julie Innes — Tue, 02 Nov 2021 13:53:30 GMT

bad things about being a vet

1. wanting to help every animal, feeling bad when you are unable to do so.

2. Never being able to properly "clock off". You are still a vet at 11pm when a distant cousin messages you about their friend's dog. You are still "The vet" when you pick your kids up from school/ parties, and are expected to discuss their cockapoos ear issue with some parent whose first name you don't even know. I had my neighbour show up on New Year's Day, demanding that I come and see his cat right away, when I had a houseful of guests and I was just about to serve dinner (I did go and see his cat and my husband was furious!)

3. People buying badly bred animals then blaming me for their (ongoing) issues!!

4. People. in general :).

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Nicola Cole — Mon, 01 Nov 2021 20:40:06 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233648#233648"]I can extract some margin from these people but not enough to make ends meet for an employee only working part time. Others target only the wealthy end of the client base and can extract enough to pay a part time wage that someone can live on.[/quote]

I’m slightly confused.

If someone chooses to work part time (employed) then they wouldn’t usually expect to be paid more than whatever it works out at pro rata. Are you suggesting you’d have to pay someone working part time more (pro rata) than a full time employee?

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Audra-Lynne Turner — Mon, 01 Nov 2021 15:05:30 GMT

As an employee and qualified vet of 24 years, (I'm popping my head above the parapet for but a minute) I'm going to add my 5c worth.

All in all, what I hate about being a vet is:

1) That being one appears to mean that you must be prepared to cheerily work all hours without wanting a life regardless of the stage of your career, family situation or personal abilities. EVERYONE IS DIFFERENT and life changes. We all have our own situations and personal challenges, but trying to force us all into full time Jack of all trades folk is not going to work, particularly with the feminization of the profession, and the expansion of our scientific knowledge (a cat is no longer a small dog and rabbits are not suffering from a baytril deficiency etc.). A little flexibility and understanding towards each other and from above in corporates goes a very long way, and allowing Vets to do what they have a passion for surely will increase job satisfaction. Sure, some may take advantage of flexibility but the majority of us are decent hard-working vets trying to do the best we can every day.

2) It's not OK to be sick. This has always been so, but this has particularly intensified in the last few years with the rise of corporates and short staffing. One must drag one's germ riddled butt in and hack all over clients because one does not feel its OK to let the team/clients down, while also being terrified of the prospect of losing a day's pay (especially in those practices where sick pay is extremely limited/absent) or knowing that you owe a colleague or will have to give up holiday days. Have never understood why we seem unable to cut ourselves a break.

3) The incessant admin. This is hardly something that affects just us, but as a full time clinician it is the bane of my life, and I can only imagine the impact it has on CDs/practice owners. You have my respect! It is most often the thing that keeps me running late, regardless of how efficient I am with my time.

4) Long hours are part of the job but when leaving late becomes the norm just to get the job done over and above your 10-12 hour shift and robs you of personal time, I challenge anyone not to become resentful and mentally/emotionally exhausted, especially as you get older, and for relationships not to become strained.

There are many good things about being a vet but let's face it, it's a vocation and we all know it's not the money. Generally most had our eyes open walking in and we know hard work and long hours are all part of it, but we think we could all agree that the pressures have increased. Perhaps given sufficient flexibility and the chance to do more of what you enjoy (I'm pretty sure I've met those that love emergency and don't mind paperwork too), with time to recover, retention can be improved? I don't have any other ideas but thanks for the discussion.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Bob Russell — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 08:50:16 GMT

What pi**es me off is VetsNow advertising on-line consultations through the day, charging £24 for it then offering that as a discount if the pet needs to be seen but only if it goes to an IVC practice.

This used to be called poaching and unprofessional, now opportunistic?

I pay for VetsNow to cover my out of hours and now they are abusing that position.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

James Dunne — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 05:38:20 GMT

Hi James. The idea that we can somehow provide care for all animals is something else that gets us down - it is impossible to provide for all animals. Even in disadvantaged areas, where most people will get a few quid together to provide very basic care, there will be those who feel entitled to more, or to everything for free, who think that reasonable fees are still a rip-off. The mentality of some of the public that owning an animal is a right rather than a privilege is something that could do with changing, but probably won't happen overnight. I disagree that practices didn't target the high end 20 years ago - there were practices doing this as far back as the 1970s and 1980s. The local client base to an extent dictates what 'end' the practice within it is if we want to call it that.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

cairncross — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 04:40:35 GMT

Please dont take this as a judgement on anyones choices or circumstances just a reflectionn on the general logic of numbers.

For My client base, ie the local population from whom i have to extract a sustainible income part time working does not make ends meet, they need more than one job, government subsidy or better paid than average partner. I can extract some margin from these people but not enough to make ends meet for an employee only working part time. Others target only the wealthy end of the client base and can extract enough to pay a part time wage that someone can live on.

This does not solve the problem of providing care for all animals and it increases the workload on those trying too. If we all target the high end there wouldnt be enough work to sustain either. It is a conundrum that seems impossible yet it didnt exist 20 years ago

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

cairncross — Fri, 22 Oct 2021 04:21:14 GMT

Quite a few things on your list relate to instability of the client vet relationship, mobile vets, offers, lack of continuity in ooh provision.remote vir

tual vets

There are quite a few academic studies on how stability in this relationship in human field improves outcomes, reduces complaints reduces workload and increases efficiency by significant amounts.

I would add the proliferation of locums career breaks and, going travelling, proliferation of specialists even to the list of instability options. Perhaps these are not the actual cause but just part of the vicious spiral.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Alistair Graham-Evans — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 22:15:45 GMT

Sorry I waffled a bit previously Arlo

My lists:

Things making my job harder-

Lack of staff - no applicants for advertised jobs

Regularly having to see clients from other clinics OOH ( some with no money)

Increased OOH work for clients who use mobile vets who cannot be contacted ( just switch phone off)

Things devaluing profession-

Clinics offering discounted vaccinations and neutering

Clinics offering care plans and then refusing to see folk as they are busy

Remote consulting (when no lockdown) - the majority of these consults are useless.

Upselljng - clients recognise when they are being processed rather than cared for

Things making it not the job it once was -

Lack of financial progress ie partnership in career

Some things have always been bad and some things have improved ( other lists available!)

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

James Dunne — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 18:42:27 GMT

Hi Jill. Disclosure: I did sell my business share to a corporate buyer. I'm still working away. I think the corporates, while there are some negative aspects associated with their arrival, are also used as a scapegoat for a lot of the ills in our profession. When I qualified, there was enough whinging about greedy bosses lining their pockets while assistants slaved away. I think the corporate arrival makes the whining easier as they are 'faceless' in some respects. As for the amounts being offered - with the cost of living outstripping wages, it has become very difficult for assistants, even in independent practices, to purchase partnerships. Banks are much less relaxed about lending than they once were. Then for partners, you have to find someone suitable to enter into partnership with - it isn't just waiting for someone with money to come along. Corporate purchase feeds into this. Corporate purchase also takes away the headaches of increasingly bureaucratic legislation that makes being an employer stressful beyond belief - it is not worth the money in some instances. Corporate practice also feeds into the wants of many veterinary professionals - larger organisations are more likely to offer flexible hours and accommodate people's needs. The drawback is obviously pay - if you work less hours or someone else has to cover the inconvenient hours for you, you will not earn the same salary as someone working long or inconvenient hours. I agree generally with a drawback of corporate ownership being cheaper routine services and goods with more expensive/unaffordable non-routine care. This is something though that has been developing within our profession over the past 20 years - we have never had as high a standard of veterinary before, but never as few clients who can afford that standard. And yet...the mass media portray constant images of superhuman efforts being made to treat impossibly complex conditions, with only rare clinical complications being encountered - to Joe Public, this then becomes the norm. And for the disgruntled betracksuited among us, whose level of social insight is similar to that of their pit bull's, it becomes a source of discontent when they discover that not alone can they not avail of this treatment locally, but that plan B also costs money and significantly more than they have at their disposal. Re lack of career progression - I can see the point here. Professions should move with the times just like any other job and having opportunities to learn -and apply the learning - and keep progressing is something that is becoming more difficult. There is a culture of fear that has been created within our workforce, but I don't think it specifically relates to vets solely - I hear the same things being said by Dentists and engineers. No-one wishes to take any risk for fear of making an error, however unlikely. Clients are probably more demanding and less forgiving than two decades ago, which adds to this fear. It is easy for them to voice their discontent on Google reviews, which they often do - negative reviews are usually much more extensive and incisive than positive ones. It is likely that things will go full circle and while Arlo asked what is wrong with our profession, I don't think that it's a total pile of poo either. All of the aforementioned stuff probably happens to some degree in other walks of life. It's all stuff that we have perspective on, probably different ones and we deal with it one way or another. There is one thing that is head and shoulders above the rest 'bad' and that is the fact that vets are top of the pile when it comes to committing suicide. Obviously, the difficulty we put up with takes more of a toll on us than on many others and we have means and skills available to us that makes us high-risk for dying when really we could do with having a cry for help answered.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

cairncross — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 18:41:14 GMT

Yes and probably these were the ones working longest hours,

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Jill Butterworth — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 18:03:30 GMT

The other drop out rate is an unintended consequence caused by corporates buying out practices for temptingly large amounts when the owners are in their 50s, rather than them continuing to work until their 60s and 70s albeit part time.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

cairncross — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 12:40:09 GMT

Thanks for the reply a critical opinion from another perspective is good. Sorry I dont mean to demonise others choices or judge the reasoning for them. I was trying to make the more pragmatic general point that if people choose to move off in different areas this reduces the supply and creates pinch points where they moved from. . I did not mean this choice needs to stop i meant it needs to be accounted for and somehow replaced.

Just a pragmatic numerical calculation if more vets choose to see less cases for whatever reason we need more vets.

I dont think that the dropout rate is the only problem. It is also demand not just incresed pet numbers but incresed options at all levels incresed options to offer and consider with each new option slowing up the process.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Nicola Cole — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 10:17:49 GMT

I wholeheartedly agree with Michael Woodhouse

except that I honestly had no idea how much a vet would earn when I was a teenager. I guessed I wouldn’t be poor, and I guessed I wouldn’t be rich.

I love being a vet and always have done.

But I also agree with Stephanie Wellings.

There are problems regarding OOH and childcare etc, and whilst I completely understand that it was my decision to have children, I don’t think that the two should be incompatible. In years gone by it was very common that a male vet would have a family but that the wife/partner could afford to stay at home to look after the children. That dynamic would have been across lots of professions, not just veterinary, but these days with an increased percentage of vets being female, it must play a role. Although I actually think weekend work can work very nicely from a childcare point of view!

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Bob Russell — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 09:22:23 GMT

I have not been through all of the posts since MW's post.

In essence he is right but his practice has not (as far as I know) faced numbers of new practices opening year on year threatening the viability of your business. I set up twenty years ago and locally there was a new practice every decade or so. This allowed time to adjust.

At one stage a new practice could appear every year, backed up by massive injections of funds that an individual struggled to match.

It creates stress that has never been faced before.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Julian Earl — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 08:49:00 GMT

For me, it was only really, shortage of personal or free time!ut one can work arundthat! [ No pun intended!! ]

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 07:43:16 GMT

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233625#233625"]We do have a duty and should have to provide continuity of care to our patients, [/quote]

Absolutely. What percentage of your work time, though, is for patients that genuinely needed a vet? And what percentage for needy clients who haven't taken responsibility for their own pets needs? Or HR? Or the gazillion other tasks that businesses demand of us these days?

There isn't a vet I know who minds working all the hours God sends for an animal in pain. But that's really not what the bulk of the job is like anymore, is it?

And I really don't think a life of dedication to veterinary services is enough for most people. Even though I remain very proud of what I do, I certainly don't expect my last thoughts on my deathbed to be along the lines of 'I wish I'd spent more hours at work'.

[quote userid="19228" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233625#233625"]yet no one has provided more vets to meet the time requirement.[/quote]

The issue isn't the number of vets coming in the front door - there's more than ever- it's the vast number fleeing through the back door. And, I'm afraid to say, that's in big part due to opinions like yours. You may feel that dedicating your life to your job is enough for you, but in demonising those who take a different path you are part of the problem. Whether you agree with these people becomes irrelevant - unless you listen to them and adapt, your own life will become harder as you're left manning your ship alone.

I don't criticise your choices - you're obviously a very hard working vet - but maybe your own life situation has enabled you to make choices that others can't?

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Alistair Graham-Evans — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 07:36:02 GMT

I know there are less appealing aspects to our job eg OOH, long hours, client pressures. But lots of jobs have these things - work / life balance isn’t great if you’re in the Navy, patient pressure is huge if you are a junior doctor etc

The check out assistant at the supermarket must get fed up with the public quite often!

Anyone dealing with people has pressures. Maybe our more specific pressures come from clients expecting Supervet or human medicine results on a tiny budget. Maybe some disillusioned vets are trying to practice human medicine standards in a low tech environment.

I am more interested in people complaining about something if they offer up some ideas for workable solutions.
The clients as a whole aren’t the enemy - we have to work with them. The bad clients seem to occupy far more of our thoughts and efforts than they should.
Sorry Arlo but there are lots of things better than when I qualified as well as irritations.

I am mystified why some vets are so surprised about some aspects of the job when they have spent a long time “seeing practice “ while training.

When I look back on my career there were some hellish situations- some solved by changing job - but isn’t that normal and part of life? I shall now duck for cover!

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

cairncross — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 07:19:19 GMT

We must work every hour sent because,

We do have a duty and should have to provide continuity of care to our patients, there are more and more patients, there are more and more vets choosing to provide only for a select few when it suits them, Everyone who regulates us has on any level has developed a cottage industry of if ongiing requirements and training that is perpetually waiting to fill any free time availible, There are many many mant more options and treatment plans for every condition and proceedure all of which in theory should be explained and offered in every case. These optiions have increased exponentially yet no one has provided more vets to meet the time requirement.

RE: What are the bad things about being a vet?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 21 Oct 2021 06:57:03 GMT

[quote userid="6765" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233621#233621"]Pleased to see folk speaking up the positive aspects![/quote]

Yes, but it wasn't the question! I know it makes for a bit of a depressing read, but I do think an important one.

[quote userid="12375" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233618#233618"]I think you are looking at this from the wrong end. [/quote]

Nothing new there, I suspect . Still, I think perhaps more accurate to say I am approaching it from a different end, because I suspect we'll arrive at the same conclusions ...

Talking of which, I was watching a ted talk about career success the other day. Many have argued that career success is best achieved by picking a career that you enjoy, that interests you, that you are passionate about. The argument was that a better strategy is to pick a career where you feel you are making a difference to society (because apart from anything else it can be quite a challenge to pick a career that interests you if your real passion is macrame).

Anyway, I should have thought that for all the moaners and complainers and the cascade of regulations, being a vet is something where you can take pride in making a difference, and it is something most are passionate about (or at least when you start).

[quote userid="10402" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233622#233622"]Anon because I know some of my staff are on here.[/quote]

Anon, what a sad post, by which I mean commiserations. Not the sentiment on which I think anyone would want to end their career, then again if you get a good price that will hopefully soften the blow.

[quote userid="10402" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/30037/what-are-the-bad-things-about-being-a-vet/233622#233622"]Why demonise vets for wanting a good quality of life? [/quote]

I rather agree. The world has moved on. There's a sort of Victorian hair shirt self flagellation thing about the idea that you must work every hour god sends, or you're not good enough in some way. There's a happy medium.