Transport of injured animals

RE: Transport of injured animals

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 15 Aug 2021 11:52:18 GMT

[quote userid="3094" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232165#232165"]Apologies, I cannot resist! When I was at university a few years ago, we were all one sex! Isn't everybody that way from birth?? Ho-ho...![/quote]

Fair point well made!

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:22:21 GMT

[quote userid="3094" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232165#232165"]I am surprised no one has pointed this lout already!! [/quote]

I dunno, I always read and respect his reasoned replies?

Of course what he does in his private life is his business and of no concern to me!

RE: Transport of injured animals

Julian Earl — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:14:55 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232090#232090"]Does nobody see something wrong with over 90% of graduates on a course being one sex? Why? What is being done to level the playing field?[/quote]

Apologies, I cannot resist! When I was at university a few years ago, we were all one sex! Isn't everybody that way from birth?? Ho-ho...!

I am surprised no one has pointed this out already!!

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:13:57 GMT

Nobody seems to mention that employment is now not influenced by gender!

Some are gender neutral [and becoming more so] and some aren't

Add that some jobs are selected by A levels and bingo!

Men will just have to get smarter!

RE: Transport of injured animals

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:07:38 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232161#232161"]

Bob Russell said:

Does nobody see something wrong with over 90% of graduates on a course being one sex? Why? What is being done to level the playing field?

[/quote][quote userid="5904" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232134#232134"]Queensland 1962 [I think] 2 women in our year of 30ish. As far as i remember everyone accepted, ie no selection.[/quote]

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:07:13 GMT

It's not confined to vetting or the professions, and is going to be magnified and become even more the norm when/if lockdown ends.

Certainly in the main cities where the home site is based on income/price it is obvious that working from a £500k house is exactly the same as working from a £1mill. house, just minus the 50% less mortgage, and coincidentally the employee hasn't got 2 odd hours standing on the 7.32 in and the 5,23 back!

If I was starting again I'd look at the outer metropolis and charge like dentists do!!

And I'd go for 5 minute appts, and fix the patient and not worry whether the owner [already late for Francansesca's viola lesson] would be later, if Ilisted all the possible, conceivable, causes of diarrhoea on the Axminster.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Clive Ansell — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 17:04:50 GMT

[quote userid="6297" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232086#232086"]

The salary for the IVC new grad scheme is on this page:

https://ivcevidensia.co.uk/graduate-academy

[/quote]

£29k per annum, that's pants. My starting salary in 1996, 25 years ago was £26k

How would one do that?

It would be discriminatory, and therefore illegal, to offer X places to males, Y places to females, and Z places to all other genders.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Rob Davis — Thu, 12 Aug 2021 15:18:29 GMT

[quote userid="6297" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232105#232105"]there were 11 of us men in a year group of around 70.[/quote]

That changed quickly.... I graduated only 6 years before you, and we were about 50:50 in a year of I think 56 students.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 17:00:28 GMT

[quote userid="6297" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232105#232105"]there were 11 of us men in a year group of around 70.[/quote]

Queensland 1962 [I think] 2 women in our year of 30ish. As far as i remember everyone accepted, ie no selection.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 11 Aug 2021 13:41:09 GMT

I’ve said this before on here but whilst researching for a talk about women in the profession I found a reference that applicants even back in the 20s were 75% female, but of course they were not accepted onto the course. And it’s not just A level results Anthony, many boys will look at job salaries rather than anything else when deciding what to do. That most definitely influenced my son, and didn’t influence my daughter.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 17:47:02 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232099#232099"]

I accept it is still a very prestigious degree but it is dropping down the league. It was the most difficult and competitive degree course to get on.

It is still very over subscribed but not by male applicants it seems.

[/quote]

I remember talking to an admissions tutor at university (I graduated in 2003) who said that even going back 20 years before that there were far more female than male applicants, but they admitted a higher proportion of the male applicants than the female ones, whereas when I was there the proportion of those admitted were roughly the same as the proportion of those who applied, there were 11 of us men in a year group of around 70.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:39:39 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232099#232099"]

It was the most difficult and competitive degree course to get on.

It is still very over subscribed but not by male applicants it seems.

[/quote]

This has been well-raised before If the final selection is only on A-levels, then most/more of these will be women.

This has nothing to do with vocation or "vetting ability" but solely on the ability to get good exam results.

RE: Transport of injured animals

bob lehner — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:29:20 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232090#232090"]My first job with housing etc had to be worth at least £25K at todays prices but the bigger money came later on with partnership.[/quote]

Yes - I think this is where things have gone sadly wrong.

In the 'old days' you graduated, worked as an 'assistant' for a few years and then looked for a partnership somewhere (or put up your plate). A partnership in a half-decent practice in a half-decent area should provide a pretty respectable income.

My first job in the practice in the 1970s carried a salary of £2,500 (plus house and car). When I signed up for a partnership some 5 years later I had to borrow £75,000 to buy in (a pretty scary sum at the time), but my profit share was £25,000 - and this rose substantially year-on-year thereafter. I was able to buy a decent house and pay off my loans within a few years. I was always mildly pleased to note that my annual income exceeded that of a NHS GP.

Compare that with the present, where youngsters have ever fewer and fewer opportunities to buy into a good practice (and, by all accounts, many don't seem to want to take that route anyway). Many hopes are dashed when the promise of a partnership is scuppered by the inevitable sale of the business to a big-bucks corporate. The alternative is then to be employed by the corporate, with very limited opportunity for real career progression.

Of course a few brave souls will still set up on their own - but high property prices and much increased competition make this a less attractive option than in the past.

So we seem to have ended up with what appears to be a somewhat unhappy and disillusioned profession, largely composed of of part-timers or permanent locums.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Bob Russell — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:18:38 GMT

Congratulations to him and genuinely well done!

I accept it is still a very prestigious degree but it is dropping down the league. It was the most difficult and competitive degree course to get on.

It is still very over subscribed but not by male applicants it seems.

It is the profession that is wrong, not the course. Pay and conditions no longer live up to the level of effort required.

How many vets on today's terms will have a comfortable retirement and life style based on employment? Is this why boys are looking at other professions?

I would never belittle the achievement of anyone entering vet school but I might question the wisdom of it!

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 14:16:20 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232093#232093"]One lad had applied for vet med and I helped him a bit with interview prep etc. He has got into Glasgow and is thrilled, as are the college. It is still a very prestigious degree![/quote]

Or, perhaps, like me, he had always only wanted to be a vet like, I believe, most, if not all, dinovets.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 13:04:33 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232090#232090"]For decades a veterinary degree was considered the epitome of success. It is now an also ran.[/quote]

This isn't true. I've spent the morning celebrating A level results at my daughter's college. One lad had applied for vet med and I helped him a bit with interview prep etc. He has got into Glasgow and is thrilled, as are the college. It is still a very prestigious degree!

RE: Transport of injured animals

Bob Russell — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 10:55:30 GMT

Does nobody see something wrong with over 90% of graduates on a course being one sex? Why? What is being done to level the playing field?

For decades a veterinary degree was considered the epitome of success. It is now an also ran.

All well and good having a starting salary of £29K but where does it go from there? If you are on £34K after five years you are standing still. If it is £50K after 20 years you are standing still.

My first job with housing etc had to be worth at least £25K at todays prices but the bigger money came later on with partnership.

The only people getting a good return seem to be those selling up to the corporates and they are probably just getting what they should.

Sadly I don't have the answers but at present the likely way forward is to import inexpensive vets from overseas. The RCVS made a big thing of heading over to India. Is that where we should be looking?

RE: Transport of injured animals

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 10 Aug 2021 08:32:47 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232079#232079"]What is the starting salary for a new grad these days? [/quote]

The salary for the IVC new grad scheme is on this page:

https://ivcevidensia.co.uk/graduate-academy

RE: Transport of injured animals

janine redman — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 22:31:40 GMT

May have been £52k . Two bed semi , one reception , one kitchen small garden , ex council house

RE: Transport of injured animals

Clive Ansell — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 15:46:22 GMT

[quote userid="5904" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232073#232073"]I can only assure you that salary was not a consideration and i managed to spend it all[/quote]

Me neither. I didn't even find out what salaries were when I applied to vet school, and on graduation hadn't the slightest clue what I could or should earn. I wanted to be a vet, and wasn't interested really in money, it just wasn't a factor.

My first vet job in 1996 had a starting salary of £26,000 all in, which compared to my peers was at the high end. I was shocked to see it was less than I had been earning driving hgv's.

It has become a consideration over time though, to the point now I resent the fact we lag so far behind comparable professions, and it barely provides a livable wage.

It must be a consideration for younger colleagues and our new grads. With the cost of housing and the burden of student debt, it must be hard to make ends meet.

What is the starting salary for a new grad these days?

RE: Transport of injured animals

janine redman — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 14:04:28 GMT

New forest , expensive location always

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 14:02:05 GMT

https://www.retrowow.co.uk/social_history/60s/earnings_1960s.php

This gives a lot more and doesn't seem to agree with you??

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 13:53:49 GMT

[quote userid="3685" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232072#232072"]So as much as I’m all for veterinary being a vocation, and I do believe it is, it’s much easier to stay with your choice of vocation if it affords you a very comfortable standard of living![/quote]

As usual figures can be viewed anyway you want. To make it sensible what were salaries for coal miners, steeplejacks doctors lawyers etc at the same time?

I can only assure you that salary was not a consideration and i managed to spend it all, bought a mini for I think £700ish.

RE: Transport of injured animals

Nicola Cole — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 12:38:08 GMT

[quote userid="5904" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29905/transport-of-injured-animals/232070#232070"]Late 1967[/quote]

Ok, so whilst I don’t in any way doubt that veterinary was your vocation, it’s far easier for something to be/stay your vocation if it affords you a comfortable standard of living.

1967, salary £1750, average uk house price £3642.

2021, salary £32,000 (as a starting salary, I’m guessing yours was starting salary or thereabouts), average uk house price £268,000.

Before you/someone says it-yes, we all know house prices have gone up massively since those days and that level of growth won’t be seen again. But it still demonstrates that you could live much more comfortably on a veterinary salary in those days than you can these days-your salary was half the average house price!

So as much as I’m all for veterinary being a vocation, and I do believe it is, it’s much easier to stay with your choice of vocation if it affords you a very comfortable standard of living!

RE: Transport of injured animals

Anthony Todd — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 11:57:21 GMT

Late 1967