Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

Virginia Campbell — Thu, 08 Jul 2021 22:45:35 GMT

Agree with this. I like the puppy vaxes as it's a chance to set the tone of the relationship and teach the client the importance of learning how to handle the pup properly but all in all - just as long as somebody does them. When I started seeing practice over 20 years ago it seemed every clinic had at least one pup lying miserably in a godforsaken isolation kennel out the back- pup, IV line and newspaper sodden and stinking with parvo - even if the whole shebang had been patiently cleaned and dried 20 minutes ago. Sometimes they lived sometimes they died. For everyone's sake I'm glad those days are gone.

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 19:50:11 GMT

Our local PDSA is doing emergencies only based on telemedicine - so we are seeing a lot of appointment requests from their clients to try and resolve things that the owners perceive cannot wait - and also to get their animals vaccinated

It seems strange as we are working normally except for face masks, hand gels, and limited people in the waiting areas, and restrictions are due to be lifted entirely very soon. Fingers crossed anyway

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

Clive Ansell — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 14:39:20 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/231005#231005"]For a charity to not offer vaccines seems absolutely crazy to me. If we didn't, many animals would simply be unvaccinated which I don't think helps anyone. [/quote]

Agree.

Surely the more animals that get vaccinated the better, regardless of who or where it is done, and whether in the private or the charity sector. I don't really care who does it or what they charge for it, as long as it gets done.

Should all be working together to achieve the same thing.

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

Clive Ansell — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 14:31:51 GMT

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/231006#231006"]As to the lifetime vaccinations that some vets offer, everyone knows it is a loss leader to try and bond the client.[/quote]

I've come across many cases where VFL has had the opposite effect.

People sign for it to bag the offer, and still go to there regular ("proper") vet for all other treatments. I've had clients say as much, "we come here for the cheap vaccines, but if he is ill we would only ever go to a proper/real/our own vet" some clients seem to perceive being cheap with being less good.

I have noticed some clients come along with, or say they have, no money. Therefore no counter sales at the time of vaccination. I think they see it as they have already paid and don't want to spend anymore.

If at the time of the pre paid vaccination it is found the patient needs any investigation, mass removal, dental work, some/many clients go back to there usual vet for it.

Not sure VFL are a good idea, or a good business model?

Easipetcare are offering VFL for £80 at the moment.

easipetcare - easivac

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

David Mills — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 11:17:05 GMT

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/231006#231006"]I would say that £35 is not the market price of a puppy course these days[/quote]

I've just googled our local area out of interest, and there are at least 10 practices offering full puppy vaccinations, flea, wormer, 6m insurance etc for <£50. So I don't think you're correct. Where are you based?

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/231006#231006"]PDSA is paying less than £7 for their vaccines they must be getting a very good deal on them from the manufacturer[/quote]

We have around 48 hospitals and treat over a million animals a year in normal times so I suspect it's a case of economy of scale, but when I was in private practice it was a similar amount (around £8/9 per full dog vacc for instance).

I still don't get your issue with it really. Do you think the PDSA shouldn't be vaccinating? It's been demonstrated that it isn't subsidised, quite the opposite. Do you think they are taking clients from private practice? Do you think they're too cheap?

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/231006#231006"] As to the lifetime vaccinations that some vets offer, everyone knows it is a loss leader to try and bond the client.[/quote]

And what is wrong with that? Do you also have an issue with aggressive pricing by vets on some products?

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

ell — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 10:31:23 GMT

Hi David, I would say that £35 is not the market price of a puppy course these days and also if the PDSA is paying less than £7 for their vaccines they must be getting a very good deal on them from the manufacturer. As to the lifetime vaccinations that some vets offer, everyone knows it is a loss leader to try and bond the client.

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

David Mills — Wed, 30 Jun 2021 05:31:59 GMT

I think there is some confusion here. The PDSA and other charities, AFAIK, do not offer free vaccinations (although other services such as neutering may be free at some charities). In fact our vaccines are not priced aslt knockdown prices - a puppy iniital course is around £35, with boosters around £24. The cost price of most vaccines is considerably less, around £7.

There are certainly many private vets around doing these for cheaper (£100 lifetime vaccines anyone?).

So I don't really get the argument about use of resources. If anything vaccines are not taking away resource or using donations legacies etc to fund Pet health, actually we turn a "profit" on these which subsidises other services we offer. For a charity to not offer vaccines seems absolutely crazy to me. If we didn't, many animals would simply be unvaccinated which I don't think helps anyone.

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

ell — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:48:23 GMT

Hi Clive,

I can see your point re some can't or don't get them vaccinated elsewhere but in your example the person you turned away wasn't going to even pay the low price that the PDSA would have offered if she was eligible. However the PDSA hasn't always offered vaccinations (showing my age now) and I don't know the original reason for doing so. I suspect it was not simply animal welfare but also a new revenue stream but then I may be wrong. And yes I do think that some previous donors possibly have stopped in recent years but the reasons for that are complex and may include the perception of squandering resources.

Never mind, life goes on and people are people.

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

Clive Ansell — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:00:01 GMT

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230983#230983"] If the subsidised preventive services were not available for the said pedigree pups then the owners would pay the full price elsewhere.[/quote]

The problem is, some can't or don't, which may mean there are unvaccinated puppies out there, which may mean we have a welfare concern.

Just before Christmas 2019, I turned away a new client that had bought 2 expensive puppies on a finance deal from a puppy farm for her children for Christmas. She claimed she couldn't afford vaccinations and anti-parasitic treatments, and the practice doesn't give credit. She was not eligible for charity assistance, and further claimed she could even afford the fees at the local low cost clinics.

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230983#230983"]If that is the argument then the PDSA should charge the market price for preventative treatments for pedigree pup first vaccination courses.[/quote]

Just as we can't dictate how people spend their money, we can't insist on how the PDSA or any other charity business uses their funds. As David points out, it may well be a cost effective use of limited resources to provide free or cheap vaccinations if it prevents parvovirus cases.

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230983#230983"]I mean that a charity depends on donations from members of the public and legacies and in the case of the PDSA (I don't know about the other charities) asking for some payment. [/quote]

It must be difficult from a public relations viewpoint: one the one hand, it could be seen in a bad light if they don't or refuse to vaccinate or treat a pedigree dog; but if it is perceived that they squander limited resources on multi thousand pound puppies, that could look bad too and people may not continue to donate ?

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

ell — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 10:01:07 GMT

Indeed you can't stop people spending their money the way they want and nor should you be able to. By "used in this way", I mean that a charity depends on donations from members of the public and legacies and in the case of the PDSA (I don't know about the other charities) asking for some payment.

By offering services such as vaccinations for expensive pedigree pups for example then the limited funds available are further limited for sick pets .

It may indeed prevent parvo cases but that is not the argument. If the subsidised preventive services were not available for the said pedigree pups then the owners would pay the full price elsewhere. If that is the argument then the PDSA should charge the market price for preventative treatments for pedigree pup first vaccination courses.

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

David Mills — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 09:06:11 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230981#230981"]Are you guys doing vaccinations at the moment? reason I ask is that we seem to be getting lots of PDSA registered clients booking in for booster vaccines. [/quote]

Not currently, most sites are still working on essential 1 month services. However, some sites will be trialling resumption of preventative services soon.

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230981#230981"]True. I thought the PDSA had stopped folk registering expensive pedigree dogs?[/quote]

No, a few years ago there was a 2 pedigree rule (could only register 1 pedigree dog) but that is no longer the case (it went out before I joined about 4y ago).

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230981#230981"]Maybe, but it wouldn't encourage responsible pet ownership and taking responsibility. Shouldn't folk think twice about buying a puppy if they don't have the means to pay for its vaccination and treatment? [/quote]

Yes, quite. Charities are by and large a sticking plaster for a problem that requires more societal action. It is not just pets, but hire purchases, payday loans. people not paying off credit commitments etc etc. Whereas charity services across all sectors - human health, veterinary, social care etc etc - were intended to help those affected by a sudden downturn in circumstances, providing healthcare etc to those affected (children, pets, parents etc) they have in the modern society morphed into a service people expect and see as a legitimate free service. There is an argument that pet ownership prevents or helps manage other medical aspects of peoples' lives, but it is difficult to quantify this.

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

Clive Ansell — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:35:53 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230980#230980"]PDSA do offer vaccinations,[/quote]

Are you guys doing vaccinations at the moment? reason I ask is that we seem to be getting lots of PDSA registered clients booking in for booster vaccines.

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230980#230980"]You can't stop people spending their money how they want, how do you decide who can use charity services? It is means tested. [/quote]

True. I thought the PDSA had stopped folk registering expensive pedigree dogs?

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations/230980#230980"]There's an argument that actually giving away free vaccines is cost effective - their cost price is about £5 or £6 and if it prevent one parvo case (cost around £800) there's a lot of vaccines that could have been offered..[/quote]

Maybe, but it wouldn't encourage responsible pet ownership and taking responsibility. Shouldn't folk think twice about buying a puppy if they don't have the means to pay for its vaccination and treatment?

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

David Mills — Sun, 27 Jun 2021 00:44:53 GMT

PDSA do offer vaccinations, but they are charged for, not free (primary course £35 or so, boosters around £24). It can be better value getting a vaccine for life deal at one of the corps. We have never given vaccines for free, and having worked in a number of charities, they never did either.

You can't stop people spending their money how they want, how do you decide who can use charity services? It is means tested.

"Used in this way"...what way do you mean? There's an argument that actually giving away free vaccines is cost effective - their cost price is about £5 or £6 and if it prevent one parvo case (cost around £800) there's a lot of vaccines that could have been offered...

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

Freya . — Sat, 26 Jun 2021 12:15:43 GMT

Given that she got the dog before checking if the pdsa were doing vaccination I suspect the availability or not of charity practice would make little difference to her life choices. Possible just to who she's cross with!

RE: Charity clinics doing initial vaccinations

Clive Ansell — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 13:33:05 GMT

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations"]

So this morning someone who has bought a pocket bully

phones us and is really annoyed with the PDSA as she only got the dog on the understanding that she could get everything done there as "she can't afford it"

[/quote]

How much did she pay for the puppy? maybe she should take responsibility, and should have checked that the PDSA were open as normal. The PDSA's local to me haven't been taking any routine work for some time.

[quote userid="10397" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29904/charity-clinics-doing-initial-vaccinations"]There has got to something wrong when it is so easy for people with expensive pedigree dogs to get charity treatment (at least in normal times)[/quote]

I always though it odd, when I have worked for the PDSA and RSPCA, that folk are rolling in who are on state benefits, sporting the latest fashionable £3000 pedigree puppy, and driving expensive cars. Funny old world