Yet another new vet school!

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 13:57:50 GMT

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230931#230931"] all these graduates pouring out of the new schools[/quote]

The Universities won't mind, they are at the supply end, it's farming students. AKA a 3 year BSc is no longer enough, now need 4 years for an MSc, who's winning?

Neil

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Bob Russell — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 13:17:55 GMT

A shortage of vets should improve the terms and conditions of vets in practice. A glut could give dodgy bosses the upper hand.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

bob lehner — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 11:47:54 GMT

Everyone agrees that there is a shortage of vets at the moment, but things change over time.

In a few years time, with all these graduates pouring out of the new schools, there could easily be a surplus and we'd then be like Spain and Italy were a while back - no jobs for them - ending up driving taxis....

In a relatively small profession there is a very fine line between shortage and surplus. Over my career I've seen it swing from one to the other.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Neil Wheadon — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 10:22:18 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230927#230927"]Who is going to staff them?[/quote]

Well Bob, they need an experienced practioner......

Neil

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Bob Russell — Thu, 24 Jun 2021 09:11:04 GMT

Who is going to inspect and monitor all these new vet schools?

Who is going to staff them?

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Stephen Pointing — Wed, 23 Jun 2021 17:01:47 GMT

[quote userid="13196" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school"]I see in today's news that there is a plan for a new vet school to be established in Aberdeen.[/quote]

I spoke too soon. Not to be outdone the University of Central Lancashire is also planning on opening a vet school from 2023 onwards. I can only assume that there is plenty of money to be made from offering a veterinary degree course. It will be interesting to find out how many places are offered to UK nationals and how many to graduates from overseas. I think in the case of the Scottish vet schools because Scottish entrants don't have to pay any tuition fees the vet schools are almost obliged to offer a considerable number of places to overseas students in order to make up for lack of money being generated from home grown applicants.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Bob Russell — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 18:19:24 GMT

For crying out loud. Just label sausages 'not for sale within the EU'. Job done!

RE: Yet another new vet school!

patrick murphy — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 15:59:10 GMT

me too

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 11 Jun 2021 10:06:49 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230606#230606"]This was a very big one for me, how many vets do team sports?[/quote]

Played rugby since qualifying in 2012 regularly. Miss the occasional match due to weekends working, occasional training session because of evenings on call.

Stopped playing in 2018 when I damaged cartilage in my wrist, became the 2nd team manager at my club. Almost spent more time at the club than when I was playing!

Wrist is feeling pretty solid now and I've had a real hankering to get back playing, so I've started training again.

I make every effort to get to training. If it's busy in the evening when I'm supposed to finish and I have training, I will leave when I'm supposed to, and the back up vet is called in. My practice is very good at ensuring people get away on time and have time outside of work for activities. They even sponsored me when I was playing!

If I didn't have rugby I probably would have suffered much more from burnout.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Stephen Pointing — Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:22:42 GMT

[quote userid="8958" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230716#230716"]Northern Ireland may need one soon judging from the news. [/quote]

A great pity that the NI/Republic of Ireland border issues were "weaponised" from the outset of the Brexit negotiations. I really don't think that needed to have been the case with a bit of common sense and goodwill on both sides - but both were in very short supply from the outset. And a solution which was supposed to have reduced the possible friction at a "hard" land border is still causing problems even though the border has been moved into the middle of the Irish sea. All very predictable.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Stephen Pointing — Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:15:59 GMT

[quote userid="5091" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230714#230714"]An interesting take on this in the Scottish Farmer: New vet school will not solve recruitment issues[/quote]

What an excellent article. I agree with everything that the author has written.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 20:38:07 GMT

Northern Ireland may need one soon judging from the news. What is it now? .... oh yes, our great leader promising an oven ready Brexit deal has merely kicked a lot of cans down the road. Faced with a rather heavy workload, the chief vet is wondering how 12 of them are going to cope with all the meat imports.

Neil

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Edward Jones — Wed, 09 Jun 2021 19:58:41 GMT

An interesting take on this in the Scottish Farmer: New vet school will not solve recruitment issues

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 18:21:06 GMT

[quote userid="5904" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230642#230642"]

Stephen Pointing said:
did any of your children follow in your footsteps and, if not, why not

Not one of three! All have pets, 2/3 cats 1/3 dog

[/quote]

So none of them did?

My father was married to the farm, he didn't even own it, managed it, every working minute seemed to be spent there and we're talking12 hour days. He loved it, lived it, much as you clearly did.

However the consequences were that we never went on a family holiday in 18 years, he never seemed to take a holiday and I'm being honest and candid here because I have discussed this with my mother, the family bonding suffered.

I looked at farming, I even had a fall back offer at Reading to do it, but I never would have done it for the reasons above. Both of our children didn't even think of looking at Veterinary Medicine. Our eldest is on a fabulous path to engineering and our daughter a childrens nurse, studying at Southampton

Neil

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Stephen Pointing — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 12:47:56 GMT

[quote userid="5904" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230642#230642"] Still, I suppose if you are selecting for a desirable special coat colour everything else goes out the window....[/quote]

I've got a Falklands Islands' moggie and she is very healthy - even in her 10th year. I think the gene pool down here must be very limited (talking about cats still) so there must be an element of inbreeding (still talking about cats). One of my colleagues from sometime back was not overly impressed by how "feisty" most of the FI cats seemed to be and his theory was that the Argentinian soldiers had killed and eaten all the quiet, good natured ones (there was a period of time when they were very short of rations) and only the "wild" ones survived. I don't think there is any truth in that theory.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Anthony Todd — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 11:37:12 GMT

[quote userid="13196" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230641#230641"]did any of your children follow in your footsteps and, if not, why not[/quote]

Not one of three! All have pets, 2/3 cats 1/3 dog, a "pedigree" crossbred thank goodness! So many of our pedigree cats have had major problems???

[grotty teeth, bowel problems] Has anyone else noticed this?? Still, I suppose if you are selecting for a desirable special coat colour everything else goes out the window....

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Stephen Pointing — Mon, 07 Jun 2021 11:29:14 GMT

[quote userid="5904" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230621#230621"]And there's the rub! I didn't ever want to do anything else!! [/quote]

Hi Anthony. My kids have all helped out at various times in the vet clinic - so plenty of exposure to the veterinary world but none of them showed a lot of interest in following in my footsteps and the one who might have done so was the least academic - so would have struggled to get in. They are all now doing very well in their various professions/jobs. While I can remember you very well I can't remember your family make up as well. As a matter of interest did any of your children follow in your footsteps and, if not, why not?

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Anthony Todd — Sun, 06 Jun 2021 18:03:48 GMT

[quote userid="13196" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230615#230615"]I probably wouldn't recommend a veterinary caree[/quote]

And there's the rub! I didn't ever want to do anything else!! And, yes, I wasn't smart enough to get into Med School

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Stephen Pointing — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 20:38:01 GMT

[quote userid="16672" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230604#230604"]3 - An acquaintance has switched from being a vet and had gone to medical school to become a doctor (I believe for financial reasons). Locums weekends to pay for tuition[/quote]

Could be a case of "out of the frying pan and into the fire". There seem to be an awful lot of very unhappy and miserable GPs about these days - despite their relatively good pay. My local GP practice in Somerset is run almost entirely by part time GPs and locums - so the chance of building up a patient - Dr relationship is almost impossible.When I first attended the practice it was extremely stable with a number of long term partners and younger ones ready to step into their shoes - but when the older ones retired the younger ones didn't want to take their place for a range of different reasons. If my children were just deciding what career they'd like to do I probably wouldn't recommend a veterinary career but I wouldn't push them towards medicine either.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Helena Rymaszewska — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 18:21:17 GMT

I certainly remember being surprised by quite how many vet students at the RVC in the mid 80 s had retaken A levels in order to make the necessary grades.Think Cambridge had a similar policy later on also.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Bob Russell — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 09:12:56 GMT

I was relieved that none of my children have shown the slightest interest in becoming vets. Only one has shown much interest in anything academic and went to university. He is happy working for the local council and being a union rep!

I am not sure I would chose the same career given a chance but then I might just have made different choices during my working life.

Pay and conditions probably work out more reasonable for those working 'part-time' compared to those working all hours.

Anyone believing that there will be a return to wider working OOH are kidding themselves. I did it for many years but would walk away rather than return to the crazy hours on duty.

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 07:59:45 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230605#230605"]There have been periods of time I've hated it [/quote][quote userid="16672" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230604#230604"]she was missing out on much of life and was unable to socialise with many of her friends due to the hours (evenings and weekends) and couldn't attend fitness classes which held great personal importance to her.[/quote]

This was a very big one for me, how many vets do team sports?

[quote userid="16672" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230604#230604"]lack of career progression[/quote]

This is going to be the big one in future years. The escape is to go into management, but you can only have so many managers

(Edit) The other escape is to referral practice and many are doing this as interns, but again referral centres need GP vets. The only way this can expand is with a 'dumming down' of general practice where the vet there acts as a gatekeeper to refer. I'm seeing this happen and it's depressing, see it twice and refer it. The hub and spoke corporate model almost encourages this. Maybe that will work, but will clients want it? Will the day come when clients simply go to the referral centre first, what's holding that back?

How many vets have children that have become vets? I can think of one case and that person didn't want to take on their fathers practice, now sold to IVC. That's a telling statistic.

Neil

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 05 Jun 2021 07:51:39 GMT

[quote userid="5904" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230603#230603"]Hands up vets who don't like their job please. [/quote]

There have been periods of time I've hated it

Anthony.. you're asking that question in the wrong place. They're not here....

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Martin Hamilton — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 21:30:56 GMT

[quote userid="5904" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230603#230603"]Hands up vets who don't like their job please. There may be a gem of information which is helpful?[/quote]

These are not my personal thoughts, just those I have heard from colleagues either via direct communication or via their social media.

1 - Close friend at vet school admits that they never considered any careers other than being a vet, but realised about 3/4s of their way through vet school that there were other careers out there that interested them which paid better. He finished vet school, went on to work at a bank as a manager of some programing arm straight out of uni and is doing very well.

2 - Another close friend from vet school decided after a few years of work in general practice that the stress and hours involved were not worth it (financially and mentally). She told me that she felt she was missing out on much of life and was unable to socialise with many of her friends due to the hours (evenings and weekends) and couldn't attend fitness classes which held great personal importance to her. She now owns a yoga studio which she started from scratch, employs a few people and has much more time for the lifestyle she was seeking. Again, maybe wasn't aware of the lifestyle involved prior to entering vet school? Or maybe just thought that things would be different for her, who knows.

3 - An acquaintance has switched from being a vet and had gone to medical school to become a doctor (I believe for financial reasons). Locums weekends to pay for tuition.

4 - Another acquaintance is now a PE teacher, unsure if their motives for leaving the profession.

At a wedding recently a bunch of us got talking about how we felt our careers were going - the sentiment was generally "not good", though of course some of us were pretty happy with things. It's certainly multifactorial, but some of the quoted reasons were hours, pay and lack of career progression (I'm sure the corporatisation of the industry doesn't help here).

RE: Yet another new vet school!

Anthony Todd — Fri, 04 Jun 2021 20:59:23 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29862/yet-another-new-vet-school/230602#230602"]Anthony ... it's maybe not the poor selective criteria causing the high dropout rate? Maybe it is just the job. [/quote]

Hands up vets who don't like their job please. There may be a gem of information which is helpful?

[not being a smartie, or nasty]