Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 20:12:43 GMT

Don'y you know about the bird? Well everybody's heard that the bird is the word.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Chris Geddes — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 17:07:44 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown"]one or two in the garden[/quote]

I hope they don't have one - they're social animals

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown"]lock their chickens in the shed[/quote]

I hope people aren't doing this. They need light and enrichment

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown"]Reports of welfare issues caused by chicken lockdown[/quote]

This is a welfare issue caused by...people of questionable morals. Not the lockdown.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown"]to erect structures to contain them that will cost probably hundreds[/quote]

Perfectly possibly to erect suitable structures for tens of pounds and a modicum of DIY nous. But you have to question why poultry owners would not have suitable accommodation to begin with. "Chicken lockdown" is something that all poultry owners should be aware of as a possibility at any time and be prepared for it...but in case if you don't have a run for your hens (in addition to a coop), you're asking for them to be predated. Mine go in the garden when I'm around in normal circumstances, but they'd be in the run when I'm not around.

This backyard poultry keeper supports the legislation in any case! Yes it's a bit of a pain and my hens (and ducks) are happier when they get to roam, but it's no major issue.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Iain Richards — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 16:05:25 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227787#227787"]it is somewhat canute-like to think locking down chickens in the UK is going to prevent the next avian flu outbreak anyway.[/quote]

Worth remembering that 15 sheep triggered FMD 2001....

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

David Mills — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 12:12:26 GMT

You can cuddle your chicken, Arlo, we won't tell.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Iain Richards — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 10:29:33 GMT

Cuddling chickens is our version of wet markets! It's a low risk, yes, but not negligible and the consequences of a mutated flu strain on top of corona are not good (even though flu cases are massively down).
So you have the balance of risking mutation against a few people having to be inconveninced by making a relatively secure run.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 13 Jan 2021 09:55:57 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227762#227762"]As far as the risk of both the virus mutating, and then infecting a human, probably very low. But, hang on, the world is currently busy dealing with a virus that mutated and then infected a human...[/quote]

Yes, but we don't have too many wet markets round these parts! And we don't in the UK live in such close contact with animals.

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227762#227762"]It is rare,[/quote][quote userid="4367" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227765#227765"]So the risk is low[/quote][quote userid="3685" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227766#227766"]Chance of that is very low[/quote]

Given society has kept chickens for what 1000s of years (with few problems) and given that we've just had a demo of how it is impossible to contain a virus in one country, it does seem to me that a) the risk in the UK is vanishingly small, and b) even if not, it is somewhat canute-like to think locking down chickens in the UK is going to prevent the next avian flu outbreak anyway.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Nicola Cole — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 19:57:48 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227758#227758"]Not sure how big a concern this is. But again, would it not be more pragmatic just to advise people not to cuddle their chicken during avian flu risk times, rather than locking them down. [/quote]

Influenza has a segmented genome. Greater risk for significant mutations if, for example, two strains have infected same cell (as they can effectively swap genetic material between the strains). So if you have an avian flu that has acquired a mutation that allows it to infect human cells in the same cell with a human strain that transmits readily between humans....

Chance of that is very low but potentially devastating. Unless things have changed, it was thought that pigs were a good mixing vessel for this-hence the concern about swine flu.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Iain Richards — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 18:48:00 GMT

In the AI work I did in 2018, it was full hoods and respirators to work with game birds for sampling. DEFRA got very twtichy with one unit that had duck and geese and chicks (sorry, that's Oklahoma) ducks and pigs. So the risk is low but real. As to not cuddling chickens, you are on facebook aren't you. The obsesion with cuddling things is rampant

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 16:33:38 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227761#227761"]So is there a significant risk of catching flu off a domestic chicken?[/quote]

The question is more, which chickens are more likely to catch and transmit avian flu. Commercial flocks are usually either in barns or enclosed/netted outdoor enclosures, with regular health checks and and a herd health mentality. It matters that the birds are kept healthy! Hopefully disease would be picked up and diagnosed early. And they will already have plans in place for needing to enclose them - or cull them.

Domestic chickens are more likely to be sharing water sources with wild birds, have dubious hygiene and poor healthcare. I'd assume they are at higher risk of catching it?

As far as the risk of both the virus mutating, and then infecting a human, probably very low. But, hang on, the world is currently busy dealing with a virus that mutated and then infected a human....

Worth considering that the last H5N1 outbreak in Asia had a 60% death rate, and was worst in children and young adults. It is rare, but pretty lethal.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 16:01:36 GMT

[quote userid="6297" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227760#227760"]Also as far as I am aware there is no differentiation in the legislation based on how many chickens you keep[/quote]

Yes, exactly. My question is why? I can't see that two chickens in a yard will make any difference to the spread of avian flu. So is there a significant risk of catching flu off a domestic chicken? Otherwise why else put them in lockdown too. Or is it just to keep us company

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 15:44:31 GMT

Also as far as I am aware there is no differentiation in the legislation based on how many chickens you keep, or whether they are kept commercially or not. The same rules apply to everyone whether they have a couple of chickens in the garden or tens of thousands of chickens.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 14:35:11 GMT

The problem isn't about wild birds getting ill - it is about a mutation affecting humans. We come into contact with, and eat the products and bodies of, domestic poultry. Much less likely to catch something from a starling.

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227758#227758"]Not sure how big a concern this is.[/quote]

Sorry but this just made me pmsl.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 14:34:46 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227752#227752"]The logic is to prevent illness in those flocks rather than to reduce/control the disease. Wild birds make that impractical. [/quote]

Yes, but in that case, why not just recommend that smallholders keep chickens indoors, and explain why, rather than demand they are kept indoors.

[quote userid="4367" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29596/can-someone-explain-chicken-lockdown/227754#227754"]Species jump always being a concern with AI. Lots of people cuddle chickens.[/quote]

Not sure how big a concern this is. But again, would it not be more pragmatic just to advise people not to cuddle their chicken during avian flu risk times, rather than locking them down.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Iain Richards — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 13:00:18 GMT

Species jump always being a concern with AI. Lots of people cuddle chickens.

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

Bob Russell — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 12:04:44 GMT

The logic is to prevent illness in those flocks rather than to reduce/control the disease. Wild birds make that impractical.

Not sure how the compensation system now works but it used to cost the government (ie us) money when affected flocks were euthanased.

I suppose the poultry owner could just bump them on the head and be done with the spending but our clients would probably be unimpressed with this suggestion!

RE: Can someone explain chicken lockdown?

bob lehner — Tue, 12 Jan 2021 11:02:22 GMT

My chickens would agree with you - they are mighty p*ssed off at being confined - especially when our two farmer neighbours aren't complying.

We have massive flocks of starlings overhead most days.