Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Karen Wilkins — Wed, 20 Jan 2021 09:53:51 GMT

I did some seeing practice ( which counted as CPD) after I went back after 5 year break. Then worked on double consults on 2/3 rate for a couple of weeks then up to full speed at full rate. It was a London rate and a Saturday rate so hard to compare but happy to chat it over. I think this a great way to get back into practice gently. The capacity for a good clinical exam, (especially when time is not pressurised) always remains. There are a huge amount of Vets who aren't sure if they want to be a Vet or not for all sorts of reasons besides confidence lost while out of practice raising small kids. There is a huge supportive community on facebook - VGSD (Vets Stay Go or Diversify) where these Vets and nurses are well represented. I'm currently in an NHS role, juggling with home school and looking to get back into StreetVet work when kids back to full-time school, but I'd happily work a vaccine clinic into the mix one day. Well done you Beats for encouraging your friend.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 11:54:26 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227914#227914"]The 10 minute appointments I mentioned are for straightforward vaccinations, with no other major issues. [/quote]

All sounds very efficient, which, if the clients are happy, sounds great. Every practice is different, with a different client base.

It's easy enough to refuse to nail clip etc but I must admit I struggle to refuse to discuss 'other health issues'. The client is paying for a full health check, not just a vaccination (as the profession has been trying to get clients to understand for years) so discussing their other health problems is part of that service. It is tricky - because they've booked in for a vacc, not a lameness/PUPD work-up, but if you find a significant problem do you just halt the consult, not charge them and tell them to come back another time (or internally refer if that option is available), or do you still do the vaccine and re-book while knowing the animal is potentially unwell at time of vacc?

Whilst vaccine only clinics are certainly viable in human medicine, as it can be assumed the human would know and communicate if they were ill, I find it a difficult concept in vet medicine. (And why I've never liked the idea of pet-shop vaccine clinics). How do we try to get the public to accept that the full health check (and discussion) are a vital part of the annual appointment, while trying to get through the sheer numbers that need doing at the moment?

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 09:55:54 GMT

[quote userid="24356" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227913#227913"]Is that with clients in the building?[/quote]

Yes.

Massive waiting area, and clients are stacked on the car park and brought in just before their appointment time. Only 1 person per pet, must wear a mask or visor, and seating is spaced a minimum of 2 meters apart. Clients don't come into consults unless a pts, one way system in place with separate entry and exit, and counter area. Been working well.

When appointments are booked client are asked if they want to discuss issues in addition to the vaccination, if so more time can be allocated if needed.

The 10 minute appointments I mentioned are for straightforward vaccinations, with no other major issues.

Sometimes 3 vets and a RVN consulting.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Elizabeth — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 09:38:53 GMT

Is that with clients in the building? Because it seems to take ours at least 5 minutes to walk from the car park to the door after we’ve had our phone chat at the start, and same again at the end for them to pick up their pets at the end.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 17 Jan 2021 09:34:07 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227907#227907"]If you're doing 10 min appointments in a covid secure workplace, I salute you![/quote]

In my locum before Christmas we were working to 10 minute appointments for straightforward routine vaccinations; that being an examination and vaccination. Additional work like fna's, bloods, ear swabs, brain transplants would not be done within that 10 minutes. They would sometimes been done there and then by vets on theatre rota or RVN's time permitting, if not rebook.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 23:50:33 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227892#227892"]I'm comfortable with 6 an hour, I cannot see why it takes any more than 10 minutes to carry out a clinical examination, discussion, write notes, and administer a vaccine. There just isn't 20 minutes of work there. [/quote]

I'm finding there are very few 'straight forward' boosters at the moment. Like you, I can usually run through a vacc appointment with 10min appointments with no issue at all. However, I'm finding people have 'saved up' lots of issues for the vacc - meds checks, skin issues, chronic lameness etc etc. Plus, with the inevitable restrictions and therefore time consuming communication difficulties that Covid has brought, even I struggle with 15min appointments at the moment. If you're doing 10 min appointments in a covid secure workplace, I salute you!

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Clive Ansell — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 16:44:38 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227889#227889"]We charge £36 (£30 + vat) for a booster. If you managed 3 an hour then you turnover £90. General figure is you need to t/o 5X your pay so £18/hr[/quote]

I'm comfortable with 6 an hour, I cannot see why it takes any more than 10 minutes to carry out a clinical examination, discussion, write notes, and administer a vaccine. There just isn't 20 minutes of work there.

therefore turnover = £180/hr, rate £36/hr (+VAT)

Plus, there would be additional revenue from other generated work, and sales of anti-parasitics etc.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Clive Ansell — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 16:37:37 GMT

[quote userid="2235" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227888#227888"]why should it be any different for locums?[/quote]

It shouldn't and it isn't.

A locum with many years of relevant experience, happy with all aspects of clinical work, and capable of sole charge cover is worth more and will command more than one with less experience and skill set.

My question to the OP was really do you want to pay as little as possible, a fair rate, or as much as you can afford?

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:55:02 GMT

[quote userid="2235" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227888#227888"]I agree they should be paid appropriately for an MRCVS, but there is a wide variation in permanent MRCVS pay (and rightly so) and why should it be any different for locums?[/quote]

I agree. All locums are not equal in experience or skill set. To expect them all to receive equal pay is odd. I have no issue with somebody just feeling they want to do a vaccine only clinic, obviously with back-up available for anything more challenging, but I wouldn't expect they'd want to be paid the same as a locum who doesn't place any restrictions on their own ability or workload. However, in a market where good locums are hard to find, things are skewed.

As to what pay they should expect - well I guess that's open to too many variables. If the practice is desperate for staff to run a vaccination clinic, then they are likely to pay more than a practice with more personnel choices. As we all know, salary is determined by what a business can afford, not what we all think we're worth!

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 15:36:25 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227742#227742"]

The going daily rate is around £300 - £330, so hourly even being conservative, about £30.

Even doing only 3 an hour, that cost could be easily covered if charging properly.

[/quote]

We charge £36 (£30 + vat) for a booster. If you managed 3 an hour then you turnover £90. General figure is you need to t/o 5X your pay so £18/hr

That's a salary equal to £37.5K and pretty generous - I would have thought

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Rob Davis — Sat, 16 Jan 2021 14:20:23 GMT

[quote userid="5012" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227742#227742"]Why the bottom, or lowest, rate? if they're an MRCVS they should be paid the going and appropriate rate for the job. [/quote]

I agree they should be paid appropriately for an MRCVS, but there is a wide variation in permanent MRCVS pay (and rightly so) and why should it be any different for locums?

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Clive Ansell — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 21:40:49 GMT

[quote userid="12930" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate"]Not sure what range of hourly rate for a self-employed locum doing this would be?[/quote]

The going daily rate is around £300 - £330, so hourly even being conservative, about £30.

Even doing only 3 an hour, that cost could be easily covered if charging properly.

[quote userid="12930" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate"]Looking I guess for what the bottom hourly rate (in an inexpensive area of UK) for a vet locum might be?[/quote]

Why the bottom, or lowest, rate? if they're an MRCVS they should be paid the going and appropriate rate for the job.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Clive Ansell — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 17:50:53 GMT

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227734#227734"]

Sarah Keir said:
but I have two robotic vacuum cleaners so they let me in.

Isn't bigamy illegal?

[/quote]

It could be adulterous, but one doesn't need to be married to be having it off with 2 robots.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

bob lehner — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 17:15:29 GMT

[quote userid="9515" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227710#227710"]but I have two robotic vacuum cleaners so they let me in.[/quote]

Isn't bigamy illegal?

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

patrick murphy — Mon, 11 Jan 2021 15:16:37 GMT

shame that the NHS does not think like you, otherwise they might have accepted me and my retired GP friend as vaccinators!

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Sarah Keir — Sun, 10 Jan 2021 12:06:38 GMT

And how about the vets that choose to solely consult and not operate? And this vet has practiced the art, just not doing so currently - Beats says as much.

I didn't say I was offended, I said that 'If I was her, I would take offense'. I am advocating for her, him and any others in this position.

Thank you for clarifying that 'just vaccination' vets, whether locum or permanent staff, are currently being underpaid.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 09 Jan 2021 23:53:02 GMT

Sarah I think you have judged me...

the art of vet medicine does require practice

and choosing to be offended on behalf of others on a hypothetical level is ...somewhat off

Vaccination as a physical act is a technician's job - pretending it can only be done by a vet is peculiar, when human vaccines can be done by nurses ( with less pain than if doctors do it ) or even, apparently, suitable lay people put through a crash course

You either want to be vet or you don't. within the field, there are vast opportunities, but looking for a role so limited as vaccines only, for more than a brief period, makes me shudder.

But to answer the original question - it is perhaps reasonable to perform 6 vaccinations an hour, with a full physical examination, and discussion if findings with the owner. Assuming each vaccine appointment generates £60 and you do 6 an hour and work for say 6 hours a day - that's £60 x 6 x 6 = £2160 per day. At 20% of turnover, that would make £432/day which seems rather a lot no matter how many dentals they generate for other vets to do

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Sarah Keir — Sat, 09 Jan 2021 19:22:57 GMT

We have some vet Dads on there. Technically I'm not a mum to a human but I have two robotic vacuum cleaners so they let me in.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 09 Jan 2021 19:04:43 GMT

[quote userid="9515" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29588/vaccine-only-inexperienced-locum-hourly-rate/227707#227707"]are you a member of Vet Mums FB group? [/quote]

I assumed Beats was a man? Therefore I assume not allowed! :D

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Elizabeth — Sat, 09 Jan 2021 18:35:45 GMT

I know when I started back I would have been delighted to be vaccines only as a way to getting back to work with out the stress or worry of being out-of-touch. That doesn’t necessarily mean that longer term she would be happy to stick to that. It’s terrifying going back after a long break.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Sarah Keir — Sat, 09 Jan 2021 17:40:08 GMT

Please lose the judgement! We don't know the story of circumstances of this vet. You are judging a persons way of working and the standards and skills they have with only the barest of facts. If I was her, I would take offense to your suggestion that she would miss things on her clinical exams.

It is her choice how she would like to work. Facilitating a fair wage is part of that.

Beats are you a member of Vet Mums FB group? You may get more of a balanced response there from people in similar situations.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 09 Jan 2021 16:26:50 GMT

A vaccine-only vet.... how boring! It reduces the job to a technical production line. I don't think a person in that situation would be able to make a convincing case about much in the way of coincidental issues noticed at the vaccine visit, and if you aren't in the habit of performing clinical examinations, you are likely to either miss things or obsess over the mundane

Perhaps better to ask why this person doesn't want to be a clinical vet any more.... though I can imagine.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Sarah Keir — Fri, 08 Jan 2021 16:34:48 GMT

Considering we're in a recruitment crisis, the right question would be 'how much is she worth to you'? If you don't pay her enough to make it worth her time (costs for her etc) then no matter how much she enjoyed it in October, would it be enough to keep her doing it? Considering that she may not make the practice much directly in vaccine sales but she should be able to pay her way by picking up the inevitable dental disease (70% that wallk in the door), the lumps the owner hasn't noticed, the arthritic animal the owner thought was just getting old.....

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Elizabeth — Fri, 08 Jan 2021 10:45:48 GMT

That was 2015.

RE: Vaccine-only inexperienced locum hourly rate?

Beats — Fri, 08 Jan 2021 10:36:52 GMT

Thanks, Elizabeth - that's really helpful. Can I ask what year that was if you don't mind just to put in context?