so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 18:56:15 GMT

[quote userid="2100" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/227118#227118"]Surely investigators should have been making that decision based only on the clinical symptoms and patient's likely risk of exposure, not whether or not they thought the patient was in the placebo group or not[/quote]

There should have been nothing for the observer to 'decide', forcing them to make a decision adds an unnecessary layer of bias to the study.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Julian Earl — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 18:15:21 GMT

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/227116#227116"]eline injection site sarcoma relating to FELV/rabies vaccs?[/quote]

Was that not shown to be a fallacy? And/or very rare??

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 14:56:21 GMT

[quote userid="11493" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/227103#227103"]So if this: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/11/26/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-lets-be-cautious-and-first-see-the-full-data/ is true. They appear to suggest that people who came for visits after receiving placebo or vaccine, and were mildly unwell could have been told by the observer to either that it could have been a side effect of the vaccine or that they should be tested for covid19. Therefore, this gives potential for people, receiving vaccine and being carriers without knowing.[/quote]

Francisco Gomez I saw this (though not that article before) and have been struggling to get my head around it. 'I don't see why this meant, as the article says: "This amounts to asking investigators to make guesses as to which intervention group patients were in".

Why? Surely investigators should have been making that decision based only on the clinical symptoms and patient's likely risk of exposure, not whether or not they thought the patient was in the placebo group or not (which surely would have been impossible to know?).

[quote userid="6897" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/227116#227116"]Feline injection site sarcoma relating to FELV/rabies vaccs?[/quote]

But wasn't the common denominator there the injection, not the vaccine?

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

bob lehner — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 14:15:17 GMT

[quote userid="10813" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/226961#226961"]I’m trying hard to think of any vaccine proven to have long term (as opposed to acute) side effects. Anyone[/quote]

Feline injection site sarcoma relating to FELV/rabies vaccs?

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 03 Dec 2020 14:57:33 GMT

So if this: https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2020/11/26/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-effective-vaccines-lets-be-cautious-and-first-see-the-full-data/ is true. They appear to suggest that people who came for visits after receiving placebo or vaccine, and were mildly unwell could have been told by the observer to either that it could have been a side effect of the vaccine or that they should be tested for covid19. Therefore, this gives potential for people, receiving vaccine and being carriers without knowing.

Suspect this is what they say about 95% efficacy is to do with controlling symptoms rather than stopping you from having covid19.

If you take the circa 22K people who were enrolled in the trial and had the vaccine, many of them could have been asymptomatic carriers despite being vaccinated. I'm not sure where the vaccinations took place, but Liverpool mass testing led to a very high prevalence.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Julian Earl — Wed, 25 Nov 2020 19:19:39 GMT

Well, perhaps my wife's cousin should have had the vaccine. He died yesterday from a diagnosis of COVID. Her family lives in Sweden so not immediately relevant to use here. RIP ARNE! He was over 70 so not a spring chicken, but even so...

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 25 Nov 2020 17:07:04 GMT

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/226990#226990"]The swine flu vaccine and narcolepsy?[/quote]

I had never heard of this, absolutely fascinated after a bit of googling to find out about it. Interestingly it seems that investigation into the link between the vaccine and the narcolepsy cases led to some new insights into the development of narcolepsy not related to vaccines. Small comfort to the 100-odd new narcoleptics, I suppose.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 25 Nov 2020 14:37:59 GMT

[quote userid="2244" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/226990#226990"]I think when you have personally experienced an adverse reaction to any vaccination it makes you more cautious.[/quote]

Absolutely. I would add that if you suffer the effect of the disease, then you'd be more cautious the other way.

Here's an acquaintance who has been part of the British covid vaccine trial (he had the vaccine).

https://twitter.com/RoaringNurse/status/1331522797366022144?s=19

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Sam — Wed, 25 Nov 2020 09:12:27 GMT

The swine flu vaccine and narcolepsy?

I am not an antivaxxer but am perhaps more cautious than most (I had to resuscitate my first baby after he had a febrile convulsion as a direct result of his DTP vaccination. I believe he would have been another "cot death" had this happened at night when we were sleeping)

I think when you have personally experienced an adverse reaction to any vaccination it makes you more cautious.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

David Shepherd — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 19:20:00 GMT

I’m trying hard to think of any vaccine proven to have long term (as opposed to acute) side effects. Anyone?

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Julian Earl — Mon, 23 Nov 2020 12:14:17 GMT

[quote userid="6386" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/226592#226592"]At risk of sounding like an anti-vaxxer, is no one concerned we will have no idea about long term side effects?[/quote]

Hello Kate, No not really. Until reading this the thought ad not really entered my mind. Maybe I am naïve?? But nor do I worry about effects of my annual flu vaccination, nor the tetanus vaccination., whenever that is due! Should I worry?

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 21 Nov 2020 22:20:01 GMT

[quote userid="7811" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/226804#226804"]cautiously excited about the vaccines[/quote]

Me too. This is the cafeteria of a Málaga hospital (where I believe my sister was born) ... according to diario Sur.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 19:35:03 GMT

Got my pack the next day and the results 2 days after posting - negative. I'm gutted - would be a bit less stressful seeing older relatives if I thought I'd already had it.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

jane alexander — Thu, 19 Nov 2020 17:16:11 GMT

had the same problem. Gave up!

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Julie Innes — Wed, 18 Nov 2020 09:47:06 GMT

I'm cautiously excited about the vaccines. My cousin works in the pharma industry and is optimistic, the new science is pretty cool. Even if it works as well as kennel cough vaccine and just reduces spread that would be a huge boost. Until then...back to Tier 4 restrictions for us here!

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 17 Nov 2020 16:36:00 GMT

[quote userid="2457" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/29485/so-now-there-is-a-covid-vaccine/226777#226777"]dead ends[/quote]

An older colleague of mine in the high risk category was quite happy for antivaxxers not getting the vaccine as long as... you know, they become 'dead ends'!

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 17 Nov 2020 15:30:35 GMT

Worth remembering that we managed to eradicate polio, smallpox etc and almost eradicate measles in the UK without 100% vaccine cover. You never need everyone to be immune to get herd protection. Just lots of dead ends ....

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

David Shepherd — Tue, 17 Nov 2020 10:44:16 GMT

This efficacy rate is based on independent analysis of 95 infections that have been recorded among the firm’s ongoing phase-three trial. Covid-19 was observed in 90 volunteers from the placebo group and five participants who had received the vaccine.

From The Independent

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Julian Earl — Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:46:09 GMT

Thank you kind sir. The spokespersons should make that clear.I believe. It culd mean so much?!

Cheers David!

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

David Mills — Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:38:37 GMT

The 90% refers to of people vaccinated, 90% when they 'catch' covid will not become symptomatic, that is, their immune system will kick in and they will show no symptoms. They may well be infectious but that's secondary.

Interesting people screeching about vaccines not guaranteeing immunity. No vaccine does. What it does do is prevent illness in a certain proportion of people who become infected.

mRNA vaccines are new, and they can be adjusted very quickly.

I'm off to buy shares in Big Pharma.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Julian Earl — Sun, 15 Nov 2020 23:35:16 GMT

Please let me ask again. 90 % protection means what? 90% victims wills urvive. 90% fewer symptoms? 90% total number of victims compared to an unvaccinated population? Or some other permutation of other morbidities?

Over to you; Thanks....

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 18:44:26 GMT

My daughter (nhs respiratory physio) had COVID about 4 months ago, she caught it from her boyfriend who is also a respiratory physio but in icu and ccu. Neither were particularly ill but confirmed positive. My daughter is part of a research project with nhs staff monitoring antibody levels, so has bloods every 2 weeks, and currently still has levels. Whether those are protecting her of course is another matter.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 16:53:10 GMT

To be fair, they have released a lot of information about how antibody levels do seem to drop quite quickly in some people. It just annoys me that the media don't make it clear that antibody levels don't necessarily equate with immunity.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 16:43:23 GMT

Just so you know, I am fairly confident I had the virus back in March. I spent a full week with the only symptoms of coughing (I had never experienced something like that before, I had other flu like symptoms but never just a continuous cough), my other half started about 48 hours after me, but her cough continued for about a month or maybe more.

I paid for a antibody test in September, and my results were negative. They did say that many people have negative antibody results after having had the virus.

RE: so now there is a COVID VACCINE??

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 12 Nov 2020 16:32:55 GMT

Me too Bob, says I have to phone up to order. I was a little concerned by the request for my place of work in case they need to be notified if I come back positive. Surely this is an antibody test to look for previous exposure rather than an active infection search, or am I being dense?