Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 17 Jun 2020 10:01:42 GMT

The ethos of "reserves" is embedded in the psyche of those "managing" these sort of organisations, typified by property management companies, who demand and maintain large reserves, earning usually interest rates on these large "reserves" way way below commercial rates, justified by "prudence"*

I wonder what interest rate the RC is getting on these "essential" reserves?

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Alastair Welch — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 19:44:19 GMT

This is the question that I have asked.

The Annual Report & Financial Statements 2019 state that the College has the target level of reserves of £8.6m and the College currently exceeds this by £10.1m (this figure does not include the unencumbered property asset of Belgravia House estimated to be worth £13.5M. The difference between the target reserves and those actually held are ‘to provide funds for planned projects and the estate strategy’ (although the details of the ‘estate strategy’ are hidden from the wider membership), however they amount to significantly in excess of an entire years income from veterinary surgeons’ retention fees. How can the College and the members of council justify keeping such a large reserve (in comparison to the balance sheet) without a detailed and transparent explanation of what the money is to be used for?

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Rob Loxley — Tue, 16 Jun 2020 07:48:01 GMT

[quote userid="12375" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29151/does-anyone-know-why-the-rcvs-has-so-much-money/223497"]might have the backbone to expose themselves to public interrogation, but I fear not[/quote]

So, are you going to ask at the AGM, or just on a random internet forum?

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Alastair Welch — Sun, 14 Jun 2020 10:52:04 GMT

iain,

You are of course correct that I could ask a question at the AGM. Sadly I fear that however tightly I worded it the answer would be the same; the minutes of various College council meetings over the years make it clear that they are squirrelling away our money as part of their 'Estates strategy' which of course is confidential/private or whatever term takes their fancy to hide it form those who actually create the funds.

What would be really nice is if someone form the College were to actually discuss openly and honestly why they believe they need so much money. Unfortunately despite there being several members of the RCVS council who contribute to VetSurgeon.org we can pretty much expect radio silence. The college is run by a small unaccountable group who meet and make all the important decisions behind closed doors. My hope was that at least one of them (embarrassed by the College's riches) might have the backbone to expose themselves to public interrogation, but I fear not.

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 17:22:12 GMT

Why we've got it is no mystery. It's been accumulated by income being greater than expenditure.

What worries me is what Belgravia House will spend it on.

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Iain Richards — Fri, 12 Jun 2020 11:22:08 GMT

Alastair, you could ask this as a question for the AGM in July.

Be very specific in your question, leaving no wriggle room. My question last year was edited so that the response fitted the question. I have taken this up with the registrar who feels nothing was affected by the changes (necessary due to time). I disagree, not least as it was a question of evidence (it's in the archive on here).

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 19:50:46 GMT

Just had a look at the 2018 GMC annual report for a comparison. Very interesting.

https://www.gmc-uk.org/about/how-we-work/corporate-strategy-plans-and-impact/annual-reports

See p54. The level of reserves held is discussed in some detail.

As their reserves were too high they reduced the registration fee for all doctors and lowered other costs for people earlier in their career. They also moved 150 jobs from London to Manchester, amongst other savings.

Only a quick look, but it seems they are actively working on reducing their excess reserves.

In contrast, a look at the latest RCVS report

https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/publications/annual-report-and-financial-statements-2018/

says this:

General Funds
The College holds reserves to ensure its continuity, to enable
its ability to discharge its statutory obligations, to cover
liabilities that cannot be covered by insurance, to bridge cash flow problems and to fund long-term projects which cannot be quantified, such as introducing new legislation.

I can't see any more discussion about the current level of the reserves unless I'm missing something?

The comparison in these similar (although different size) organisations isn't great.

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Clive Ansell — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 19:21:31 GMT

Should the OP question be rephrased as; Does anyone know why we have so much money?

"We" being the members of the RCVS, it is our college, our money ?? maybe we should all be allocated shares? maybe we should see a return if or when we retire or leave the profession? just a thought.

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

David Mills — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:34:51 GMT

Never waste a good recession. There is zero value in keeping a HQ in London. If Covid has taught us anything, it is how archaic and unnecessary it is that those doing desk based jobs need to spend a stupid, expensive period of time commuting to an office. The BSAVA HQ is in Gloucestershire, do they suffer from lack of influence, efficiency, or decent staff? Hardly. They're probably one of the most successful and efficient veterinary organisations.

The claim we would lose key staff with a move is an excuse. The BBC transitioned to Manchester very successfully.

This isn't to single out the RCVS. The same arguments against London go for the BVA. Has anyone seen the size and location of their building?! And people volunteer to fund that organisation and its folly, madness. Do those people feel they have had a good return on their investment during Covid??

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

David Mills — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 18:28:47 GMT

Veterinary Can't Pay We'll Take It Away

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Alastair Welch — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 17:02:59 GMT

I spent £3 with the land registry to discover it was bought for £2.38M without a mortgage so that is quite a good return!

They are running over £10M ahead of what their stated reserve is. The combined assets of the sale of Belgravia House and the excess in the reserve will easily clear £20M.

It is barely credible that we are considering spending circa this on a new home for what is a small profession mostly made up of individuals on modest incomes but given the fantasies contained within the recently published LWP review I am not really that surprised.

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

bob lehner — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:50:14 GMT

[quote userid="12375" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29151/does-anyone-know-why-the-rcvs-has-so-much-money/223426"]One thing I find interesting is the College's unwillingness to put a book value on Belgravia House.[/quote]

£13.5m?

See https://www.adsre.co.uk/disposals/belgravia-house.html

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Alastair Welch — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:40:48 GMT

One thing I find interesting is the College's unwillingness to put a book value on Belgravia House. This is in contrast to what one might call standard accounting practice. Ordinarily a business includes assets such as property within the accounts to give a true reflection of the financial health of the operation. In particular if one is considering a leveraged purchase it helps one's credit worthiness if there is a large property asset to borrow against.

I am certain that the College and their accountants have a current value for Belgravia House as they were organising a lease following its proposed sale, so one really has to ask why are they hiding this from the membership?

Why are none of the RCVS council prepared to front up and defend their policy of running such a large reserve?

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

bob lehner — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 16:06:08 GMT

[quote userid="12375" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29151/does-anyone-know-why-the-rcvs-has-so-much-money"]Does anyone else feel uncomfortable that in the face of the apparent financial difficulties of many within our profession that the college is rolling in it?[/quote]

The difference between the College and veterinary practices is that, looking at their financial statement, c.93% of their income is absolutely guaranteed via the compulsory annual levy on all vets, nurses and the registration of premises.

They don't manufacture anything or otherwise require the public to beat a path to their door in order to buy stuff to generate income. Unless swathes of vets and nurses de-register, or loads of premises close up for good, then their income is assured. Even this year when they allowed vets to stagger their payment I believe only c. 13% of the membership did so - and they will still have to pay up within the year.

I'd say they are pretty well Covid-proof - although their investments have likely taken a knock along with everyone else's.

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Bob Russell — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 14:45:53 GMT

Just take a look at the Report of the RCVS Legislation Working Party on the RCVS website. They will need to buy those gismos to knock a front door down once they have voted themselves powers of entry.

https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/news/rcvs-council-agrees-in-principle-to-wide-scale-legislative/?utm_source=Informz&utm_medium=Referral&utm_campaign=RCVS

If that document is not scary then you are braver than me. Hopefully I will have retired by the time some of those recommendations come to pass. I wonder what uniform they will choose for their enforcers!

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 12:10:58 GMT

[quote userid="4367" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/life-in-practice-discussions/29151/does-anyone-know-why-the-rcvs-has-so-much-money/223407"] They consistently fail their own KPIs and the process is too slow and cumbersome. It is hinted at in the suggested reforms.[/quote]

Is then changing the standard of proof meant to make it easier to reach a verdict at the expense of the veterinary surgeon?

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Mark Hedberg — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 08:11:59 GMT

I had assumed that the excess reserves were being saved for when whatever new property the RCVS moves into is purchased. While I agree that it shouldn't automatically be London-based, I can imagine that purchasing a purpose built office property can't possibly be cheap, and if the RCVS took on a ten million pound loan to finance a property, i can imagine there would be a not insignificant elevated volume from the rooftops.

(Above is purely speculation on my part.)

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

Iain Richards — Thu, 11 Jun 2020 07:37:46 GMT

I don't know either, although I thikn I've heard comment that a few extra long duration cases would depleter the reserves quite quickly there may even be a financial compensation for an incorrect dismissal on appeal.

Which gives weight ot why the college needs to review its whole approach to disciplinary cases. They consistently fail their own KPIs and the process is too slow and cumbersome. It is hinted at in the suggested reforms.

RE: Does anyone know why the RCVS has so much money?

vetbl.locum — Wed, 10 Jun 2020 21:34:33 GMT

Sorry I dont know the answer

But I agree that 'our' regulator having so much in reserve does require explanation

Perhaps they are going to support the Vets they suspend while taking too long to resolve complaints?

I think it is perverse the profession is trusted by general public but our regulator seeks further powers to 'punish' bad vets to protect the public?? If it ain't broke .....

The College is concerned re the profession's well being but are a major contributor to our lack of well being??

FWIW I think we are in cycle of practicing medicine which protects us but exposes client to financial hit just incase it goes wrong.

For example and in no way a criticism: 5yo bitch JRT whelped 4 weeks ago 7 pups presented paddling in lateral recumbency unresponsive

Me: Likely eclampsia Take b/s inject calcium slowly i/v Await response

Vet 5-6 years qualified : Takes and runs b/s to check Calcium level Sets up ivft gives diazepam Decides to give Ca but wants ECG attached to monitor as BSAVA formulary says so and gives Ca dose over 30minutes

While inexperience may be a factor, their comment was I don't want struck off if clients complain.

Rgds

PS Why do cows lie fairly quiet with Milk Fever and Bitches paddle ? Never though about that before