Ventilator challenge(s)....

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

vetbl.locum — Wed, 08 Apr 2020 08:27:40 GMT

Does anyone know if the NHS would want BBraun fluid pumps? If so how do you go about donating?

Rgds

PS Any one seen an update on ventilator supply?

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Bob Russell — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 20:11:31 GMT

No idea but for human use they would require specific accreditation .

I suspect our oxygen generator might be of more use. We have registered it but I believe this is a PR exercise unless all hell breaks loose.

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

easy307 — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 16:51:37 GMT

www.youtube.com/watch

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Anthony Todd — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:17:22 GMT

[quote userid="6550" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/28991/ventilator-challenge-s/221153"]But this is a vet specific machine. [/quote]

how do they differ; [just interested]

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Bob Russell — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 14:38:12 GMT

But this is a vet specific machine. The auctions have been packed with human anaesthetic machines and specialist ventilators. Actually some coming up for auction!

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Anthony Todd — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 12:04:03 GMT

Some years ago I was told that X-ray departments' future budgets were determined by what had been spent, not what was needed.

So, of course they dumped cassettes [thanks muchly Teresa] but then had the "evidence" of need for the up-coming year.......

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 10:44:33 GMT

I had a SAV03. Used it for exotics anaesthesia primarily but obviously could be used for anything fairly small. As GOM said it was based on inspiratory pressures not volume so really easy to use and great for diaphragmatic hernias etc.

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Bob Russell — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 08:54:03 GMT

Mercedes F1 team and others have reverse engineered a CPAP machine. Improved it and should be able to get it made in hundreds within days. Pretty impressive as it could reduce the need for high tech high input ventilators . Quite impressive what can be done by inventive people!

Not sure how valuable ventilators are in most veterinary practices. They look impressive but how many vets have the advanced skills required to use them properly. They were cheap at auction though!

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

grumpyoldman — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 20:20:52 GMT

they were always selling 100s of drip pumps at Hilditches auctions as well ,but that was because they chucked the whole thing instead of replacing batteries and many were made for specific types of giving sets, and the people purchasing the infusion pumps didn't know what kind of drip set deals they already had in place with suppliers so lots of brand new ones just got purchased then at the end of the year dumped as scrap in their celophane wrappers. We can get a drip set for 67p and its fits our pumps but some of theirs were needing infusion sets from the states that cost £5 each. So they bought the pumps and didn't use them ,then kept doing the same fiasco year after year , i think its one of the definitions of madness ,repeating the same mistakes and expecting a different outcome . Its really hard to be sympathetic to such a bunch of clowns.

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

David Mills — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 18:56:37 GMT

I've no idea why vet practices have so many ventilators, less still the Blue Cross in London who have just lent two to Lewisham NHS trust. Whilst I'm happy to give some drip pumps if needed, are they really that desperate? The amount of money pissed away in the NHS and they want to take £200 drip pumps? Seriously.

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

grumpyoldman — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 18:33:00 GMT

I think your right , about vet gear not being deemed suitable although it actually is.

several reasons : I originally invested in one merlin because I use it for phaco cases ,helps rotate the globe up into a better position . it then got used for all sorts of other things , Laminectomies TPLOs adrenalectomies etc ,so the other big surgery wanted one , There were also problems with iso and sevo availability , the ventilator allows you to keep them on 1% sometimes less and recycle more so its actually a lot cheaper on a longer surgery .We use a lot of blocks ,epidurals sub tenons facial n etc for TECAs and Orthopaedics and eye interventions . so lots of things are on intercurrent CRIs with MLK infusions as well .

The SAVO4 is a pressure cycling device suitable for small kittens and puppies as well as exotics. I do some birds ,mostly parrots and prefer to ventilate them , I also use it on tortoises snakes and the odd bearded dragon Spay . Obviously no diaphragm prohibits a lot of exotics surgery if you cant ventilate and control them. But even that would be suitable for a baby or small adult upto 70kg but it would use a lot of o2 because it only pressure cycles .

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 18:21:20 GMT

[quote userid="3929" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/28991/ventilator-challenge-s/221121"]We have registered our 2 Merlins and the SAV04 on the rcvs website[/quote]

If you don't mind me asking - why so many ventilators? The need for prolonged IPPV is so rare in our practice I never considered even buying one.

I don't believe a single vent will go to the NHS from a vet practice - I suspect this is smoke and mirrors and PR.

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

grumpyoldman — Sun, 29 Mar 2020 17:48:55 GMT

I would be a bit more sympathetic about all this if i hadn't spent years getting 2nd hand NHS reject equipment form Hilditches in Malmesbury . while there I often saw rows of anaesthetic trolleys with penlon ventilators incorporated into the build . they were still in wrappers . All about budgets and internal markets .they bought them for top money ,let them rot for 12 months then scrapped them to protect next years budget. So there they were rows and bloody rows of them being sold for a fraction of their value before being loaded on containers to be shipped elsewhere . A disgrace at the time because the taxpayer was always being mugged for more and more while this was going on . But now if so many people weren't it need it would be laughable if it wasn't tragic, this wasn't BJs lot but it went on all through Blairs reign .

We have registered our 2 Merlins and the SAV04 on the rcvs website . These things are £5000 each and far more sophisticated than their usual toys ,so if they do need them we will have to let them take them . There is no doubt in my mind that if they ever get returned they will be damaged or broken as well as contaminated. The Merlins are quite bulky and may take up too much space in their crowded ICUs. My understanding is that people start dying when they get busy because they cant do the blood gases often enough to regulate their patients needs on an individual basis.

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

vetbl.locum — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 09:55:56 GMT

Eamon

A tad cynical but possibly more accurate than 'UK has left EU ' excuse

If Dyson cannot deliver, we may need JCB's help but not with ventilators

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

vetbl.locum — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 09:50:42 GMT

Bob

If so why not say that ?

Why state offer lost in spam folder

Rgds

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Eamon McAllister — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 09:14:49 GMT

Good old Dyson. Tory donor and Brexit supporter who moved his production to the Far East. It looks like mutual back scratching to me but here’s hoping that he can manufacture and get approval for his 10,000 high tech and extremely sophisticated ventilators by the middle of next week.

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Bob Russell — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 08:08:40 GMT

Or the UK government believed they can negotiate and buy better on their own rather than as a group. Who says which EU country will get first access to the machines? My understanding is the UK has sourced several thousand ventilators from existing companies and Dyson will provide thousands more once their machines are approved. They are working with an existing experienced company from what I read. Is much of this misinformation/malicious?

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

vetbl.locum — Fri, 27 Mar 2020 00:45:25 GMT

There is video of Hancock talking to Bruce and he was aware last week of plan

Intially spokesperson said we were not part of EU was reason for not joining

So incompetence or just more mis direction ?

Seems a missed opportunity hoping not because of underlying dogma by BJ

Rgds

RE: Ventilator challenge(s)....

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 26 Mar 2020 23:32:31 GMT

[quote userid="11202" url="~/001/nonclinical/f/off-duty-discussions/28991/ventilator-challenge-s"]

Rejected idea of joining european (not EU) pandemic plan to buy this and other kit

[/quote]

From what I read in press it was not a rejection but rather incompetence and a failure in communication. I don't know about the rest.