To furlough or not to furlough?

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Kate Richardson — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 19:51:13 GMT

Drop me an email x

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Bob Russell — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 16:25:25 GMT

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

The definition is what the UK government says it is if you wish to get money from them!

Clearly the decisions by any employer may face legal challenge by employees in the future. I suspect there may be a new industry involving no win no fee!!

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:22:12 GMT

What is the definition, legal and/or reasonable [!] of "furlough"?

What does it mean financially

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Bob Russell — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 15:03:35 GMT

Ask your employer which is the best option for them. This is a scheme to be used to protect jobs in a crazy world.

A few practices seem to be taking the p by furloughing everyone except the youngest (cheapest?) so they can be run ragged. Good experience I suppose but a bit rough on them.

This scheme is to try to keep a job for people to come back to!

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Anthony Todd — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:40:35 GMT

[quote userid="3169" url="~/001/nonclinical/veterinary-practice-management/f/occupational-health/28979/to-furlough-or-not-to-furlough/221119"]Hilariously I was going to open a new branch practice on the 1st April, internally conflicted what to do about that.[/quote]

Do it! Early days are really quiet anyway until the word gets around, so an informative message on the window and on your new branch phone line will get that, with no staff to pay or upkeep............

Diverts new clients to the open branch but the "new" one is getting known for much much less overheads.

When it all goes back to normal you will have an existing client base 'cos you will have all the new clients on the new branch computer............

Could even email enquirers a Practice Pack with all the practice details??

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Richard Carter — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:20:35 GMT

what some people are doing when limited furlough income is too limited, they can still take leave owed at normal salary rates to retain the 100% salary

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Richard Carter — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 11:17:26 GMT

your leave and accumulation of leave while you are on furlough is protected

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Miriam Lodewyks — Mon, 27 Apr 2020 10:36:08 GMT

So I’m furloughed, I was scheduled to go on a 2 week holiday early May (obvz cancelled).
What do you think should happen to my holiday allowance if I’m still furloughed?
Should I get to take it later this year/next year?
Or get it paid out?
Or do I just lose it (bit of salt in the wound of having to cancel the trip that should have been a special occasion).

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Bob Russell — Tue, 31 Mar 2020 09:32:24 GMT

Which is exactly what most practices are doing. Reducing staff numbers to the minimum to minimise risk and cost.

We are down to 2¼ people on site for reduced hours. The one vet is me for the next three weeks at least.

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 31 Mar 2020 07:52:50 GMT

[quote userid="8991" url="~/001/nonclinical/veterinary-practice-management/f/occupational-health/28979/to-furlough-or-not-to-furlough/221180"]Just incorrect Gillian. Sorry. I can't put it any clearer than that. Please go read the guidance again.[/quote]

OK. RCVS/BVA joint guidance:

At this time the provision of public health and the maintenance of food production need to take priority, and veterinary surgeons working in these areas should be considered key workers.

Veterinary surgeons working in emergency care can also be considered key workers. This will not apply to every veterinary surgeon in clinical practice, and practices may need to consider rationalising their services to achieve this.

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 31 Mar 2020 07:47:17 GMT

OK. I'll put it another way Chris.

If you and all your staff are all key workers you wouldn't be looking to furlough them anyway. I thought that the key worker scheme is primarily to cover other current situations such as childcare provision in schools, where people who have to work have no other options.

Your profile says you're a small animal vet. If you're in ECC you may be a key worker, but it is something you decide for yourself, it's not automatic for companion animal vets. And certainly not all you staff will be. I'm sure you'll be ok to furlough some staff.

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

David Mills — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 22:22:01 GMT

Just incorrect Gillian. Sorry. I can't put it any clearer than that. Please go read the guidance again.

Wasn't it you spouting the nonsense about exercise only lasting an hour?!

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 18:24:35 GMT

[quote userid="11084" url="~/001/nonclinical/veterinary-practice-management/f/occupational-health/28979/to-furlough-or-not-to-furlough/221155"]as we are considered to be key workers and the businesses unable to close he feels that we will not be able to furlough staff only pay SSP[/quote]

Only large animal vets, OVs etc are key workers. Key workers are only those whose work is critical to the COVID-19 response, including those who work in health and social care and in other key sectors like power generation, food production and distribution etc. We aren't needed to maintain human health and welfare.

We are an essential service, but not key workers. It is different.

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 16:04:39 GMT

IVC employees have all been sent a letter asking to sign to give permission to be furloughed if required

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

zoe north — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:52:51 GMT

I've been doing a little research on this only this morning, having read the .Gov website and various other HR emails and the FSB website. (very useful for employment stuff by the way.)

Please excuse the lack of quotes! All below from UK .Gov website.

The scheme is open to all UK employers that had created and started a PAYE payroll scheme on 28 February 2020.

If an employee is working, but on reduced hours, or for reduced pay, they will not be eligible for this scheme and you will have to continue paying the employee through your payroll and pay their salary subject to the terms of the employment contract you agreed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-to-employers-and-businesses-about-covid-19/covid-19-support-for-businesses

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/claim-for-wage-costs-through-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

I was looking to see if I could furlough my new apprentice nurse who is due to start college in the next month but alas as she was employed after the 28th Feb 2020, she is not eligible.

You do have to be careful to look at contractual details and get agreement from the employee to vary the terms of their contracts.

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:37:05 GMT

[quote userid="7269" url="~/001/nonclinical/veterinary-practice-management/f/occupational-health/28979/to-furlough-or-not-to-furlough/221160"]I don’t think your accountant is right Chris[/quote]

Agreed

Martin Lewis was talking about this, this morning, no mention of any exclusions

Neil

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

GAP — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:35:27 GMT

[quote userid="11084" url="~/001/nonclinical/veterinary-practice-management/f/occupational-health/28979/to-furlough-or-not-to-furlough/221155"]Just heard back from my accountant regarding this, as we are considered to be key workers and the businesses unable to close he feels that we will not be able to furlough staff only pay SSP[/quote]

The scheme is “designed to support employers whose operations have been severely affected by coronavirus”(GOV.UK).

"Although veterinary practices may remain open, in order to comply with the most recent government requirements, the number of clients seen face-to-face should be kept to an absolute minimum.

Furthermore, clients and/or veterinary professionals should only travel to see animals if judged essential to do so. This means that animals should only be seen in emergencies or where, in the judgement of the veterinary surgeon, urgent assessment and/or treatment is needed"(RCVS)

By seeing only emergencies our work caseload is obviously been severely affected.

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Joyce Whitehead — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:30:28 GMT

I don’t think your accountant is right Chris, if you read the link above and the gov.uk website it says any business can furlough employees if there is less work than usual for them to do, which certainly applies to most vet practices. I certainly hope we can as we have furloughed three so far.

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

rhmrcvs — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:30:15 GMT

That is not correct. Ssp only payable if actually sick . If you don't wish ( or employee doesn't wish ) to furlough , either lay off or short time working, or redundancy.

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

bob lehner — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:30:11 GMT

I'd question that - the excellent website quoted above by GAP and drawn up by HR lawyers says:

''The scheme will be available to all UK employers, including businesses, charities, recruitment agencies and public authorities, of any size and in any sector. To be eligible, employers must have created and started a PAYE payroll scheme on or before 28 February 2020 and have a UK bank account.''

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Chris Mason — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 15:09:40 GMT

Just heard back from my accountant regarding this, as we are considered to be key workers and the businesses unable to close he feels that we will not be able to furlough staff only pay SSP

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

GAP — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 10:51:56 GMT

[quote userid="11901" url="~/001/nonclinical/veterinary-practice-management/f/occupational-health/28979/to-furlough-or-not-to-furlough"]I don’t Feel I understand enough about this to make the decision.[/quote]

This article should answer many questions you and others may have on how furlough should work. I hope it help.

www.lewissilkin.com/.../furloughing-employefaqs-for-employers-on-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Bob Russell — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 09:49:14 GMT

I am back to being a single vet in three week blocks. As my PAYE pay is low, so would be my income if I was the one furloughed. We have reduced working hours to try to concentrate phone calls etc. This should allow urgent cases to be seen efficiently. Emergencies will be seen as normal.

I have one experienced nursing assistant with fewer family commitments to help me. Once I know the admin side is covered then my head nurse will also be furloughed for three weeks. I am hoping the scheme will be made more flexible for very small businesses but in principle it is a job/business saver!

Unless things have changed over the weekend the system is not up and running yet. The employer will need to contact HMRC via some portal yet to materialise!

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 09:48:26 GMT

I can look it up, but to Furlough, do you need to inform HMRC or do they ask at some stage.

Neil

RE: To furlough or not to furlough?

Julie Innes — Mon, 30 Mar 2020 09:46:13 GMT

Good to know!