Another new low from the profession, or is it?

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Nick Taylor — Thu, 27 Aug 2020 13:52:18 GMT

Awesome. We are 6 years in now and on our third expansion. Its like a baby; you are always on duty, always trying to make it the best possible and the reality is the more you put in the better they grow.

Good luck. Whats the name of your practice?

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 27 Aug 2020 13:40:25 GMT

Thank you Nick, 2 years in November. Best thing we ever did but I never worked as much in my life.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Nick Taylor — Thu, 27 Aug 2020 11:49:16 GMT

Hi Dinu Catilina, you made the jump and set up your own practice then? well done. Hope its going well. Nick

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 05 Dec 2019 12:31:18 GMT

Had a message in our practice's message book to give someone a call today. No details present. So rang it - someone who isn't a recruitment agency but a 'specialist headhunter agency'. They weren't ringing for a potential job but they wanted to offer me a 'career coaching advice workshop' or something along those lines, which they're offering for 'driven people like you Anthony with your level of experience'.

I'd previously told this company where to go and they didn't get the message then. So told them I wasn't interested and I don't need their career coaching, and if I wanted to find a job I would do it myself and not through an agency. Then told them to remove me from their database (again).

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Peter Faulkner — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 20:59:21 GMT

Feeling a bit left out here, never been head hunted or stalked via social media.

If it did happen though, I would insist on a £100 non-returnable deposit, to filter out time wasters and make sure their offer was genuine.

I'd be happy to receive up to 3 approaches a day. No deposit - you're blocked.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 18:32:35 GMT

[quote user="Chris Milligan"] I remember a head of recruitment (not a vet) from a local startup corporate booking a consult with a vet and using the consult time to try and sell them on jumping ship. very inappropriate but business can be cutthroat.[/quote]

I hope he was charged a full consultation fee.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Rob Loxley — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 17:51:12 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Or is this now or is this what we have to accept as the norm as we rush our way to the bottom..?[/quote]

Not sure it's a symptom of a rush to the bottom, more that recruitment is hard and if you advertise and have few applicants you've got to get out and find the people. As an employer, the days of putting the ad in the vet record and the applications just rolling in are somewhat past.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 13:38:06 GMT

Not surprising. I've had multiple phone calls to work asking to speak to me, caller won't say what it's about. I've had emails to my personal email address from V4P asking if I wanted a JVP role in two local branches, as well as another general recruitment one to my email address. I politely told them where to go and to remove me from their database.

Often get friend requests on facebook from recruiters. Ignored every time.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 10:23:39 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"] It's a bit like being chatted up when you are already in a relationship! [/quote]

I disagree. It is not the same at all.

I was guilty of becoming far too personally invested in my staff, to my own detriment. I can now see, with a bit of distance, that what I was providing was a job, nothing more. It is wonderful when you find a team you love to work with/for, and if you can be mates as well then that's a bonus. But don't be offended or personally rebuffed when staff make decisions about changing their job. It is just their job.

Head hunting is about business, nothing about it is personal.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Bob Russell — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 10:05:14 GMT

I was highly piss+d off to be told letters inviting applications for nurse jobs were being sent to our nurses at the work address!

Thankfully the 'invited' nurses felt about the same and were more than happy to show off the letters to all and sundry!!

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Julie Innes — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 09:26:10 GMT

It doesn't surprise me that it happens. But if I was an assistant I would be wary of companies that routinely headhunt, and as an employer I would be wary of an assistant with no loyalty to their existing team! It's a bit like being chatted up when you are already in a relationship! Happened to me a couple of times (the headhunting, not the chatting up ) and although the headhunters were very charming and persuasive, having been stung previously by a job that sounded like a dream come true, and having a decent boss and nice team at the time I decided to stay put.

Like Dinu, I have in the past chatted to people I knew/ had worked with before about upcoming positions in my practice, but I think that is different from contacting someone you don't know and offering them a job!

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Chris Milligan — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 04:15:55 GMT

this sort of thing happens occasionally - I remember a head of recruitment (not a vet) from a local startup corporate booking a consult with a vet and using the consult time to try and sell them on jumping ship. very inappropriate but business can be cutthroat.

not sure what you mean by British behaviour but it certainly is unprofessional - any staff you want to keep will see that for what it is and act appropriately. any staff that think that's a reasonable way to recruit someone you probably don't want in the long term anyway. I don't think it's a terribly common way for people to conduct themselves thankfully.

as I'm sure everyone else does I get weekly leading emails from recruiters on linkedin - I'm happy where I am so I ignore them all

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Alistair Graham-Evans — Thu, 28 Nov 2019 00:59:43 GMT

Systematic trolling of accounts is a bit low but doesn't surprise me.

If staff are in a good team and settled and happy then presumably they will ignore or politely decline any advances.

Recruitment by personal contact networks or word of mouth has always happened and I have been party to that as an assistant and employer with no qualms.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:59:22 GMT

It's happened for over 20 years.

Can I though add one thought and if makes someone think twice, it has achieved its objectives

I was headhunted 20 years ago. At the time it was incredibly flattering. The practice seemed a progressive place, somewhere anyone would want to work. I remember squatting with my head in my hands after a month at this new place thinking 'what have I done?'

If someone approaches you, please look at it objectively, think about what you are leaving behind. In effect your headhunter is making the choice, not you, remember that.

Neil

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 22:34:10 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]headhunting is SUCH a corrosive thing. It's by definition underhand. It breaks up teams etc.[/quote]

Arlo, it breaks up teams not families. How about the boss making sure that the team is strong and hard to break?

I headhunted ALL my team. I called and approached people I worked with before that I knew were good and will fit well in my practice and I made them a good offer. Some took it some didn't. I did not denigrate the other teams just made an offer. They were free to accept it or leave it or accept the counteroffer from their own team. It's how business works.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Sarah Keir — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 21:57:52 GMT

I don't see how this is a problem - it is a non-problem.

With social media, no-one is invisible from anyone else if you have any kind of professional or non-hidden profile.

Recruiters will use whatever means available to them to contact potential applicants for a job but that doesn't necessarily mean there is anything underhand about it. For example, they could contact all Advanced Practitioners in ophthalmology because they have a ophthalmology post to fill. Also the person being headhunted doesn't have to respond or take part in any discussion with the recruiter and most definitely does not need to accept the job, unless of course they were thinking of leaving anyway and the job does sound better than staying put. Is that what you are scared of An On?

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Emily Rainbow — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 20:49:05 GMT

Yep frequently occurs. Either from the corporates or from agencies. Either via Facebook messages or phone calls to the practice pretending to be another vet wanting advice.

I get it a lot but do advertise as a locum alongside my full time position so accept it now, but also happened a lot prior to doing any additional locum stuff!

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Iain Richards — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 20:31:24 GMT

No different to a chat at a bar somewhere.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:48:27 GMT

Was it CVS? They messaged one of our assistants.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 19:02:26 GMT

[quote user="James Dunne"]Headhunting, or recruitment by 'word-of-mouth' has gone on long before corporate practices emerged! [/quote]

Yes, of course I knew word of mouth has gone on forever. I suppose what I mean is the difference between the occasional ad hoc bit of word of mouth, and something rather more systemic (as you say, trolling people's personal accounts, which I know some of the recruitment agencies have done for a long time, and was why I finally decided not to allow them to join VetSurgeon.org or VetNurse.co.uk any more).

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

James Dunne — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 18:57:26 GMT

Hi Arlo

Headhunting, or recruitment by 'word-of-mouth' has gone on long before corporate practices emerged! By way of example - it was not uncommon years ago to pick up the phone to a student who'd seen practice and seemed 'with it' if you were looking for a recruit and if they were thinking about moving practices, it saved a lot of hassle. Maybe things have become less personal than that, fair enough, but at the end of the day someone still leaves a team and joins another. It is awkward anyway when you know the other practice involved and their members and get on well with them; you still have to do what is right for your own business. I don't think trolling people's personal accounts is acceptable though.

RE: Another new low from the profession, or is it?

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 27 Nov 2019 18:48:39 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]This week one of our team has been headhunted/trolled through their personal and private facebook account by the Recruitment MANAGER of one of the corporate vets. [/quote]

Doesn't altogether surprise me. I've noticed a drop off in corporate advertising ... I wondered if some were just going out there head-hunting instead.

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]This behaviour is neither British or befitting to the profession.[/quote]

Well, it does certainly happen in other British professions. Rife in the financial sector, has been for years. And others.

Whether or not it is appropriate in the veterinary profession is altogether a different question. I would say not, but then of course I would because I want the posts advertised!

But there is another reason. In my (limited) experience ... headhunting is SUCH a corrosive thing. It's by definition underhand. It breaks up teams etc. And whilst other professions are big enough to dissipate the ill feeling that inevitably accompanies it when someone leaves a team because they've been poached, I'm not sure the veterinary profession is.