I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 20:17:09 GMT

I was always in favour of a second referendum - but the magnitude of Boris's win sweeps that aside.

I am disappointed as a remainer but heartened by his gracious words after the election , and hope they aren't empty.

I now accept that this is truly the will of the majority - the size of his majority makes that crystal clear.

So be it.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 16 Dec 2019 09:51:36 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you live in France at one point? (You mentioned in another post that your children were born in France.)[/quote]

Yes, you are right. Free movement allowed me to just up sticks. Do I think it was right I was able to do that? No! I would have been perfectly happy having to meet a set of criteria in order to qualify for entry. And if I didn't meet them, my life would have taken a different path.

People seem to argue very much in black and white, as though an end to free movement means and end to movement. No it doesn't. It just means establishing some level of control over the system. That doesn't mean British pensioners can't retire abroad. Just that Spain should be able to decide how many it wants. Nor does it mean that you and others like you (or indeed my great grandparents, who came here before free movement), would no longer be welcome. But I do think there need to be limits.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Mark Hedberg — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:26:06 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] But I think it has been a kickback against 'free movement', something I have always thought is idealistic and wrong. So I think the EU has to shoulder much of the blame for causing it in the first place.

[/quote]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you live in France at one point? (You mentioned in another post that your children were born in France.)

So...how wrong is free movement, Arlo? Haven't we both benefitted from it? (So have a massive number of British pensioners, Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson, and a laundry list of other people)

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Stephen Pointing — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 21:18:57 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]Not only that, in the same way I thought Ms Swinson would have a mandate to stop Brexit,[/quote] Francisco that was never going to happen. The LibDems would have had to increase their number of seats from about 20 to over 320 in one election. Revoking article 50 without holding a second referendum was always a very bad idea and the LibDems paid the price for advocating such an undemocratic course of action.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Arlo Guthrie — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 13:50:58 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I dislike the man. But he is now the PM. Not only that, in the same way I thought Ms Swinson would have a mandate to stop Brexit, I think he has now an obligation to make 'his' Brexit happen AND not leaving anyone behind. Unfortunately I think many will indeed be left behind, I hope I'm wrong.[/quote]

Must say, I thought his acceptance speech was pitch perfect, recognising that many had lent him their vote and that he now had to earn the right to keep it. I think that speech indicated that he will be centrist, perhaps even left leaning. And I think that is where most of the country wants to be.

Like Bob, I think he is up to the task, but we shall see.

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I'm afraid however that xenophobia is still alive and many leaders are doing not enough to stop it.[/quote]

Until we all live in one country, speaking one language, with one government, xenophobia will exist to some degree or other. We're a territorial species. But I agree that the country has become more xenophobic. But I think it has been a kickback against 'free movement', something I have always thought is idealistic and wrong. So I think the EU has to shoulder much of the blame for causing it in the first place.

But I am optimistic that once things settle down and we have some kind of points system in place, the xenophobia will reduce dramatically.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Francisco Gomez — Sun, 15 Dec 2019 11:32:58 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

We have had three years building to a bad tempered stalemate. Boris has a real responsibility now to ensure the confidence shown by so many is justified. He has a hefty majority so there will be little excuse for failure.

I think he is up to the task but we shall see.

[/quote]

After reading comments here this is actually what makes sense to me. I don't always agree with Bob, but I think he's spot on here.

I dislike the man. But he is now the PM. Not only that, in the same way I thought Ms Swinson would have a mandate to stop Brexit, I think he has now an obligation to make 'his' Brexit happen AND not leaving anyone behind. Unfortunately I think many will indeed be left behind, I hope I'm wrong.

I'm afraid however that xenophobia is still alive and many leaders are doing not enough to stop it.

And no, I'm not talking just Labour. If you want to read more, I blogged about it: https://www.politicalcolumn.net/2019/12/government-account.html

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Stephen Pointing — Sat, 14 Dec 2019 16:47:34 GMT

[quote user="Christina Smith"]And we'll just subdue the Irish and Scots through numbers. Ha ha[/quote] Don't quite understand the point you're making Christina. The history of Ireland is extremely complicated and we certainly need to tread carefully there. NI is a part of the Union and, as such, should abide by the decision of the UK as a whole. Likewise Scotland while it remains a part of the UK. Prior to the SNP establishing itself as the main force in Scottish politics Scotland was an overwhelmingly Labour supporting country - after Margaret Thatcher the Tories barely got a look in. If the SNP didn't exist it would be interesting to know who the Scots would have voted for between Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson at this election.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Christina Smith — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 23:24:16 GMT

And we'll just subdue the Irish and Scots through numbers. Ha ha

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

David Mills — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 18:26:43 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

[quote user="David Mills"]

Ha I saying 50 majority or more.

And it isn't 2-0...

[/quote]

Can I have your lottery numbers?

Well played David, £10 on its way and it WILL be 5 years till the next one.

Neil

[/quote]

Just donate it to a charity of your choice. Made enough from betfair last night (an outrageous 2/1 for 350-380 seats) to keep me in Lidl Proseco for years.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Bob Russell — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 17:52:01 GMT

I think he is up to the task but we shall see.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

James Dunne — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:24:50 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Can anyone imagine the right acting in such a manner?[/quote]

Nigel Farage indicating that the next step was violence if the 'Brexit' vote didn't go the way he wanted would be a pretty good example.

Anyway, it must be a relief for UK citizens, regardless of what side of the Brexit divide one lives on, to have a degree of certainty with regard to the direction the country is headed. It has been in limbo for the past few years and that is not healthy.

Kind regards

James

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Neil Wheadon — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:19:58 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Ha I saying 50 majority or more.

And it isn't 2-0...

[/quote]

Can I have your lottery numbers?

Well played David, £10 on its way and it WILL be 5 years till the next one.

Neil

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 16:12:17 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Can anyone imagine the right acting in such a manner?

[/quote]

You mean besides the last two and a half years? ;)

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Stephen Pointing — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 14:14:02 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]What a wonderfully sensible result. [/quote] Short and to the point - and absolutely correct. Good riddance to the worst parliament that I can ever remember in my lifetime and possibly right back to the start of the parliamentary system. It reminded me of a blocked drain where having tried the plunger to no avail you were looking around for the strongest drain cleaner available. Finally the "fatberg" has been dislodged by means of a GE heavy duty drain unblocker. Hooray!

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Eamon McAllister — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 13:45:23 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

What a wonderfully sensible result.

[/quote] Hodie mihi cras tibi

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Lucy Fleming — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 13:00:00 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Can anyone imagine the right acting in such a manner?[/quote]

You mean like wailing about how the "Will of the People" is being ignored because Brexit wasn't delivered wrapped in a bow immediately? That's not to say they're not entitled to whinge, but you can hardly claim it would never happen.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

David Mills — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 12:45:24 GMT

Even more delicious than the result is the near meltdown of some lefties on social media and the radio today, wailing how they can't live in a Boris Johnson right centre country, talking about leaving and calling the result undemocratic.

Can anyone imagine the right acting in such a manner? It's Brexit all over again.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Lucy Fleming — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 12:26:25 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]but you can be a liar and a successful politician.[/quote]

You could almost argue it's a requirement...

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 12:03:11 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Contrary to your assumptions Arlo[/quote]

What assumptions? I don't remember assuming anything. I try not to!

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Iain Richards — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:43:38 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Was that a deliberate malaprop?[/quote]

It was originally poor typing, but the pun struck me so I left it in.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Bob Russell — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:24:22 GMT

I don't consider Boris to be right wing at all. I also believe he genuinely wants to do good even if this is an ego trip of sorts.

With a hefty majority he has a chance to do things his own way without relying on/fighting with the extremes of the party.

I have been astounded by the level of spite aimed towards him on social media especially.

He has the potential to do a lot of good, we shall see!

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:11:22 GMT

Contrary to your assumptions Arlo, I didn't want to remain (I accepted the result of the referendum) and I didn't think Labour's spending plans were sensible. I am simply more concerned about what will happen under a Boris controlled majority government.

I hope the forecasters are wrong and a no-deal BREXIT isn't too bad for the country afterall.

I also hope he keeps his promises.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 09:27:37 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]Well, that remoans to be seen.[/quote]

Was that a deliberate malaprop?

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Iain Richards — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 09:23:33 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]What a wonderfully sensible result.[/quote]

Well, that remoans to be seen. This government must be aware however that they SERVE the whole country, not just represent the 44% who voted for them. I'm very saddened by the result, but that's first past the post democracy and, on the whole, it kind of works. So we'll plod on. And in the same way I give bad news to a cat owner, but am delighted when the cat outlives my prognosis, I hope it works out.

RE: I propose a motion that Brexit and the election are banned

Mark Hedberg — Fri, 13 Dec 2019 09:18:54 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]And as for the accusations of being a liar, I think people will come to understand that his flowery use of language does not make him a dishonest man. People will learn to stop interpreting his words so literally.

[/quote]

This did make me giggle. Arlo, Boris is a fundamentally dishonest person, but you can be a liar and a successful politician.