An aggressive client

RE: An aggressive client

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:25:04 GMT

[quote user="Silvia Maldonado"]

No, the physical stuff is not bullying, it is a crime. Physical harm can be seen, whereas verbal and psychological aggression is more difficult to prove. Any physical aggression should be reported and the aggressor should face the music. No grey areas.

[/quote]

Sorry, physical bullying may be criminal, but it's bullying, of the most blatant sort. Tell the child who gets his arm twisted and his hair pulled every break at school, gets his pencil case stolen, gets his satchel scribbled on, that he's not being bullied. Tell the child to "report the aggression" every time and see what good it does.

Read that story by Rudyard Kipling, "The Moral Reformers".

RE: An aggressive client

Silvia Maldonado — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:39:07 GMT

RE: An aggressive client

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:12:58 GMT

[quote user="Silvia Maldonado"]

All this reminds me of a short video a good friend sent me about how to stop a bully, which also applies to other situations in life. The speaker explains bullying based in the simple fact of "dominance behaviour", and he reasons why we need to stop the drama the bully is looking for, as it has been pointed out in comments.

I found it quite useful, that's why I would like to share it with you all.

Video here.

[/quote]

I gave up about halfway through. It's all about verbal stuff and apparently the physical stuff "isn't bullying".Has this chap ever been truly bullied? I doubt it.

RE: An aggressive client

Silvia Maldonado — Wed, 31 Jul 2019 13:06:15 GMT

I found it quite useful, that's why I would like to share it with you all.

Video here.

RE: An aggressive client

Julie Innes — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 16:23:18 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"] I have a philosophy now where a written off consultation can be a very cheap way of finding out a client is an ahole before they build up a big bill that really grates on the balance sheet.[/quote]

This is my philosophy too. It's worth £20/£30 to get rid of these assholes! Well worth the money, and here's hoping Karma steps in and he ends up having to go to another vet who is even more expensive...

RE: An aggressive client

Bob Russell — Tue, 30 Jul 2019 11:37:26 GMT

You and your staff matter, a client does not.

If there are negative posts on any social media just reply with your policy regarding aggressive and intimidating behaviour. No more, no less and post nothing further.

Taking advantage of Google I found a policy for a GP practice that quite impressed me:

http://www.dunelmmedicalpractice.co.uk/website/A83030/files/Violent%20and%20Aggressive%20Patients%20Policy.pdf

Ours is:

Zero Tolerance – Abusive or Aggressive Behaviour

Our staff come to work to care for others, and it is important for all members of the public and our staff to be treated with courtesy and respect.

We have a Dignity at Work and Zero Tolerance policy. This means that aggressive or violent behaviour towards our staff or any member of the public within our Practice premises will not be tolerated under any circumstances.

Anyone giving verbal abuse to members of staff, either in person or over the telephone, will be sent a letter from the Practice advising that this behaviour will not be tolerated. Any future violation of this policy will result in the removal from the Practice client list. There will be no appeal process.

We feel sure that you will understand that proper behaviour is absolutely necessary for our staff and patients and that non-observance will not be accepted.

(again nabbed from an NHS practice!!)

If this does not close the nasty posts down it will indicate for others why you are not engaging with the individual without specifically accusing them of anything.

RE: An aggressive client

Chris Milligan — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 22:26:55 GMT

[quote user="Sam"]I am not sure if I should just let this one go.... but having made an offer of fee withdrawal and the client declining the offer... does the invoice remain outstanding? Not sure if I should pursue this or not?[/quote]

we run a 24 hour emergency only hospital in a town with a lot of drug users - we see something like this about once a month sadly and our staff have become alarmingly battle hardened to it. Our approach is if you're nasty/threatening/violent/we have to call the police you're done - go elsewhere and we'll pursue you for the money you owe us for the effort of having to see you. You'll go down the toilet on internet review sites occasionally when one of these losers decides to take their aggression public and these can go unpredictably, but the staff will thank you no end.

RE: An aggressive client

kirsty — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 20:54:10 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Rural practice, middle of the Yorkshire Dales and I have panic buttons behind reception and under both consulting room tables. Sets off the alarm and rings various people's mobiles. I feel happier knowing it's there and I'm a bloke (the only bloke).[/quote]

What make of alarms do you have? I am looking at these +/- CCTV Thanks Kirsty

RE: An aggressive client

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 19:00:01 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Anyway, Sam,[quote user="Sam"]Anyway I am happy to try to forget the whole incident now.[/quote] I hope this has been helpful for you, but if this thread now is keeping it 'open' for you and stopping you from forgetting it, please ask Arlo Guthrie and am sure he can put a halt on it? [/quote]

Sure

RE: An aggressive client

Kate Richardson — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:40:51 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]By fee waiving you are indicating fault of which there was none on your side![/quote]

Read the OP again. Sam offered to waive the fee if he never came back, the client declined. It was not as an admission of wrong doing. As Clive said in the last post, Sam did the right thing for the situation. I would have done the same I suspect, and hope never to be in the same situation.

I agree with anon (although not sure why anon) [quote user="An On MRCVS"]The more I hear about this case the more I think you should get the police involved. He was trying to intimidate you over a perfectly valid bill[/quote] if he can get this intimidating over this, it would be nice to have reported it and be able to use this should he turn up at the clinic in the future.

Sam [quote user="Sam"]Anyway I am happy to try to forget the whole incident now.[/quote] I hope this has been helpful for you, but if this thread now is keeping it 'open' for you and stopping you from forgetting it, please ask Arlo Guthrie and am sure he can put a halt on it?

RE: An aggressive client

Anthony Todd — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 18:14:21 GMT

[quote user="Sam"]I did not feel I was in the wrong...[/quote]

And nor you were, in any way.

That was, in my mind, never in doubt so why waive the fee?

By fee waiving you are indicating fault of which there was none on your side!

RE: An aggressive client

Clive Ansell — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 16:26:16 GMT

[quote user="Sam"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Waiving the account suggests you have done something wrong; never do it unless you had....??[/quote]

I did not feel I was in the wrong.... but I was scared by this aggressive man and was alone in a room with me in a corner. Just needed to get him out any way I could without it becoming physical.

[/quote]

You did nothing wrong, in fact you did exactly the right thing. When you feared for your safety, you defused and deescalated a potentially dangerous situation, and most importantly neither you or anyone was hurt, when they could have been.

Pity you can't sell the debt on to someone else, who may choose more unorthodox methods of collection

[quote user="Sam"]If I was mugged and somebody wanted my belongings I suspect I would give them away..... don't want to get hurt especially over a small amount of cash.[/quote]

I have been mugged, in La Paz Bolivia, and yes I handed over what they wanted fairly quickly. It is a frightening experience, and the couple who mugged me had a gun (I didn't!). Once they got the credit card they were after, they were quickly gone and I was unharmed.

RE: An aggressive client

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 16:08:29 GMT

Incidentally, if there really had been a forty per cent increase in the price, I'd have looked him in the eye and said "Yes, I'm afraid so".

RE: An aggressive client

Bob Russell — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 13:41:36 GMT

I would not waive the bill as such but not push for payment. I have a philosophy now where a written off consultation can be a very cheap way of finding out a client is an ahole before they build up a big bill that really grates on the balance sheet.

I would report this because it is intimidation and unacceptable. The Police can be very supportive. We had someone (not a client) that insisted on going round the front desk, getting uncomfortably close. First time it happened it was put down to one of those things but when it happened a second and third time in quick succession it was time to contact the Police. They checked CCTV and took whatever steps they needed to and he has not been seen since. We were unsure whether he was just being creepy or checking out the cash draw! Creepy probably.

RE: An aggressive client

An On MRCVS — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:49:37 GMT

The more I hear about this case the more I think you should get the police involved. He was trying to intimidate you over a perfectly valid bill. Especially as the son was an adult. (as it was a vaccination why wasn't payment insisted at the time?)

RE: An aggressive client

Sam — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 11:14:03 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Waiving the account suggests you have done something wrong; never do it unless you had....??[/quote]

I did not feel I was in the wrong.... but I was scared by this aggressive man and was alone in a room with me in a corner. Just needed to get him out any way I could without it becoming physical.

I think most people faced with a situation like this which feels like it could rapidly escalate would waive the fee if it appears to be the problem would they not?

If I was mugged and somebody wanted my belongings I suspect I would give them away..... don't want to get hurt especially over a small amount of cash.

Anyway I am happy to try to forget the whole incident now.

RE: An aggressive client

Anthony Todd — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:39:05 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Worth mentioning that even if the complaint had been valid, abusive and aggressive behaviour is still not acceptable.

[/quote]

A certain recipe for more abuse and argument. Your "abuse" will be his "discussion"?

Waiving the account suggests you have done something wrong; never do it unless you had....??

RE: An aggressive client

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 09:31:08 GMT

Worth mentioning that even if the complaint had been valid, abusive and aggressive behaviour is still not acceptable.

RE: An aggressive client

Sam — Mon, 29 Jul 2019 08:55:44 GMT

[quote user="John Wessels"]

What was this client's complaint?

[/quote]

The complaint was about the cost of his son's rabbit vaccinations.

I had never seen the Dad, it was always the son (around 20 years of age and seemingly competent and sensible) or the mother.

This year the Dad was in to pay the bill. (The son came in to get the rabbits vaccinated without the father) When the father was given the invoice he started ranting about costs and in his words "a forty percent increase in the cost of the same vaccination since last year"

In fact there was not a penny difference. I had not increased the price at all.

The real worry was that the wife and son may have hidden the cost from the father last year. When this was pointed out to me I felt even worse because I wondered if a couple of people might have had a bit more abuse than I got that day!

I am not fussed about the money.. a couple of rabbit vaccinations is not going to break the bank. It is more that I have been bullied and my staff have been bullied into waiving the fee.

Anyway... I have had a great weekend to calm down with my family who are very supportive.

Most of my clients are lovely people, and I have a great team. Lots to be thankful for!

RE: An aggressive client

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 21:15:45 GMT

I don't think I'd pursue the bill, but I certainly wouldn't tell him I'm waiving it: that's suggestive of grovelling, which will gratify him.

Sack him immediately. You don't need recorded delivery, just proof of posting, first class. Hand-addressed envelope, stamped not franked. Don't go into apologies or explanations, just simply inform him he is persona non grata and may not set foot upon your premises ever again and must not telephone you. Call the police if he shows his face again.

RE: An aggressive client

John Wessels — Sun, 28 Jul 2019 20:29:42 GMT

What was this client's complaint?

RE: An aggressive client

David Mills — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 21:08:06 GMT

Absolutely panic buttons, we have them in consult rooms and one-way lockable doors.

We have personal alarms at the weekends/lone working, linked directly to the police which also record audio if tapped. Just a branded credit card type thing. Amazing tech.

Sad it's needed, but charity practice in London. Nothing takes priority over staff safety. I've had my life and safety threatened several times over th years, whilst a hairy northern 6ft bloke I can take it, I detest even the idea of that being on my vets.

RE: An aggressive client

Joyce Whitehead — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 20:51:31 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Rural practice, middle of the Yorkshire Dales and I have panic buttons behind reception and under both consulting room tables. Sets off the alarm and rings various people's mobiles. I feel happier knowing it's there and I'm a bloke (the only bloke).

[/quote]

Us too, panic button at reception. Not in consult but to be fair, in our converted building our sound proofing isn’t great so if someone is in the surgery we will hear. But we might consider it now.

RE: An aggressive client

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 14:41:23 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

I don't think a "call button" [if a "panic button" is an "over reaction"] is an over-reaction!

Does anyone after reading this?

Should be mandatory if just common sense! After the obviously only- a- matter- of- time incident happens it will be..........

[/quote]

RE: An aggressive client

Anthony Todd — Sat, 27 Jul 2019 13:16:47 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]I had someone yesterday I had to tell to get out. Man with an aggressive Akita who became abusive when I refused to give a kennel cough vaccine to his dog unless it was muzzled and anaesthetised. I can refuse to see him or his dog, but I cannot ban him. It is a corporate practice, so if he complains (non-veterinary) management will likely roll over for him, they usually do. [/quote]

I don't think a "call button" [if a "panic button" is an "over reaction"] is an over-reaction!

Does anyone after reading this?

Should be mandatory if just common sense! After the obviously only- a- matter- of- time incident happens it will be..........