Discrimination in the veterinary profession

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Bob Russell — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 12:39:03 GMT

Is it genuine racism? I doubt it. We are discussing words not actions and nobody is using them in a particularly pejorative way.

At worst some people on here may be described as insensitive. There is a danger that taking things too seriously at this level distracts from true racial discrimination.

I am lucky to live in a world that is multinational and multilingual. Thai and English are routinely spoken at home and the 2yr old in the household understands and is becoming conversant in both. Socially we have German, Swiss, Polish and a hint of Romanian! Everyone muddles along quite happily and there is a lot of pi+s taking of all nationalities.

The only episode of true racism we have met was a 'lady' shopper in Primark that did a Donald Trump suggestion that she went home. Bad, bad move! My wife can be a really scary lady!

I dislike the overly PC brigade as they seem to be looking for problems that are often not there.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

An On MRCVS — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 11:19:03 GMT

Good to see racism alive and well on Vetsurgeon. Who would have thought it was 2019?

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Chris Geddes — Thu, 18 Jul 2019 10:24:33 GMT

[quote user="vs0u "]

White British able bodied males. There isn't a derogatory term for this group in Britain.

[/quote]

Well, "gammon", if they happen to be on the political right and/or Brexit supporters.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

vs0u — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 21:56:57 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]People getting offended on behalf of other people who, on the face of it, aren't that bothered [/quote]

I just don't understand why it's so important to you to continue to use words that are offensive to others. Why not just use another word?

It doesn't matter whether every Chinese takeaway owner would be offended. If some are, surely manners dictate that you avoid that risk. It's not for one person to decide what someone else finds offensive. Understandably, some people who've had a lifetime of racial abuse are going to be more sensitive about the use of certain words. It's not snowflakey to consider other people.

It's not a coincidence that all those arguing in favour of the use of these terms are white British able bodied males. There isn't a derogatory term for this group in Britain. Women and foreigners are much more likely to have experienced similar language and are all arguing that it's better not to use it.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 14:14:15 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]Have you ever seen the famous TV scene (from Goodness Gracious Me I think) where a group of Indians go into a white-British-run curry house and act like white British men going into a curry house? Very well observed. Mutual piss taking of different cultures.[/quote]

Calm down, dear. No one's coming for your sketch comedies. But it's good to know that the "when will this madness end?" arguments of the "it's political correctness gone mad" crew are alive and well.

I don't really see that [quote user="David Mills"]ask her if her Yellow Fever was playing up.[/quote] is an example of either [quote user="David Mills"] shared respect of difference[/quote] or [quote user="David Mills"]Rich comedy[/quote] but if you do, then yes, I dare say you will miss using or hearing terms like that.

[quote user="David Mills"]I'm a broadish northerner down south. I daily have my accent taken the piss out of[/quote]

Gosh, how awful for you. However do you make it through the day?

[quote user="David Mills"]especially when those toys don't even remotely belong to you[/quote]

Actually, they do belong to me/ us. If you'd be interested in reading a longer argument about why that's the case, have a look at "Why I'm no longer talking to white people about race" by Reni Eddo-Lodge. Don't tell me if you don't read it, because you'll absolutely hate it and I want to imagine you reading it. Don't ruin that for me

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Mark Hedberg — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 11:14:18 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

Is 'chinky' pejorative?

Genuine question.

[/quote]

I meant to say this before. In this quote, and elsewhere in this thread too, I don't think you mean "pejorative". I think you mean "derogatory".

[/quote]

That woz Arlo asking, not me

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

David Mills — Wed, 17 Jul 2019 00:17:20 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I do wish we could go back to the days where it was taken as light hearted fun.[/quote]

Exactly. And it someone was offended, you'd respect that, back off, apologise and that was that. It's all contextual, it's all relative, there are no normative rules here, people would say different things in different situations to different people. No words are wrong, per se, it's just how they are used, to whom, and in which context.

People getting offended on behalf of other people who, on the face of it, aren't that bothered I wonder if people get offended on behalf of vets who are described as money grabbers?

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 23:42:45 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]You (all) can call me 'snowflake' or accuse me if virtue-signaling all you want. [/quote]

Yes, I think you are a snowflake.

I'm actually very glad David as posted after you rather than everyone just standing looking awkwardly at their feet.

Just get over it. Let it wash. Your life will be a dam-sight less stressful if you can join in with the banter. I do wish we could go back to the days where it was taken as light hearted fun.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

David Mills — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 23:05:06 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]I'm not comfortable with the disregard of people from different communities and the normalisation of it.[/quote]

It's not disregard unless you choose to take it as so

I'm a broadish northerner down south. I daily have my accent taken the piss out of. It really doesn't bother me at all, some people are quite good at it, and I regularly do it back. If I was so disposed I could claim discrimination (and so could they). At football, things are said to disparate members of our group that you make some pale. That's just the culture of it, everyone gives as good as it gets.

Have you ever seen the famous TV scene (from Goodness Gracious Me I think) where a group of Indians go into a white-British-run curry house and act like white British men going into a curry house? Very well observed. Mutual piss taking of different cultures.

There needs to be shared respect of difference. That doesn't mean it can't be lightly pointed out for comic effect. It doesn't belong to that culture to make it OK, and yes there is a limit, but there are oddities in each and every culture of group that can, and should, be available for light ribbing. Vicky Pollard. The whole Harry Enfield Canon. David Walliams. Yes Minister. Rich comedy. No offence.

The real effort comes is accepting it, not throwing arms up.

As it goes, having spent a good number of months in Spain, Italy and France, in earlier years, this wouldn't even be a conversation. That's maturity. I remember a cousin, a respected orthopaedic consultant in one of Madrids big hospitals, of my ex going out with a Chinese guy, and her registrars used to daily ask her if her Yellow Fever was playing up. There was nothing to it, perceived or otherwise.

Put the toys back into the pram, especially when those toys don't even remotely belong to you.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Francisco Gomez — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 22:14:35 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Ask him if it likes this:

As long as he washed his hands before preparing any food......

[/quote]

I'm really not comfortable with this kind of talk. I'm not comfortable with the disregard of people from different communities and the normalisation of it.

You (all) can call me 'snowflake' or accuse me of virtue-signaling all you want.

I hope adults, particularly the ones of this profession, would consider themselves to a higher regards than this.

If this is the new normal, I want no part of it.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 22:09:38 GMT

[quote user="Mark Hedberg"]

Is 'chinky' pejorative?

Genuine question.

[/quote]

I meant to say this before. In this quote, and elsewhere in this thread too, I don't think you mean "pejorative". I think you mean "derogatory".

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 21:52:42 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc

If a tree falls in the forest.......?

[/quote]

Ah. Comic Irishmen.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 21:47:33 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]if it was YOOOrkshu, it would be Bah 'eck.[/quote]

Norrin Alifax it wouldn't.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Iain Richards — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 19:02:06 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]Depends where you come from. If you're not from Yorkshire then I claim the right to be offended (but probably not discriminated against) as the wife of a born-and-bred Yorkshireman. If you are from Yorkshire then have at it, it's your cultural right![/quote]

By 'eck is from the right side of the Pennines, if it was YOOOrkshu, it would be Bah 'eck.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Clive Ansell — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 18:24:55 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]As long as he washed his hands before preparing any food..............[/quote]

How do you know he used his hands?

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Michael Woodhouse — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 16:17:31 GMT

[quote user="Chris Geddes"]Well, for what it's worth (n=1), I have a chinese friend who runs a chinese takeaway, and he is very offended by people calling his business a "chinky", a word that upsets him because he has heard it so many times directed at him as a racial slur. [/quote]

Ask him if it likes this:

As long as he washed his hands before preparing any food..............

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 15:06:06 GMT

I should explain that when I made the original remark, I had only remembered the "perfectly square black mark in the window" scenes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x70bndpc70s:

and not the bit in the clip above - I don't think you'd do what he does at the start of the first one! I thought it was interesting from the "I wouldn't do it in front of them" point of view though so put it up anyway.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:54:40 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]BTW Evelyn- I don't think you're any more racist than Father Ted :-) [/quote]

You've lost me there. Sorry. Explain?

[/quote]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc

If a tree falls in the forest.......?

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Chris Geddes — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:40:44 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

I got a chinese mate at the gym who's parents run a chinese restaurat. I'll ask him what he thinks about the chingy thingy.

[/quote]

Well, for what it's worth (n=1), I have a chinese friend who runs a chinese takeaway, and he is very offended by people calling his business a "chinky", a word that upsets him because he has heard it so many times directed at him as a racial slur.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 14:03:27 GMT

Everyone keeps throwing around the words offended and snowflakes and really diminishing the effect words and language can have on people. Some may take offence but some can be hurt, upset, feel attacked or insecure, uncomfortable and so on.

Words don't hurt? What about the suicides after online bullying?

I got a chinese mate at the gym who's parents run a chinese restaurat. I'll ask him what he thinks about the chingy thingy.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 12:55:03 GMT

But then you're just getting offended on behalf of someone and inflaming the whole situation...

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Chris Geddes — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 12:48:49 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]. The trouble is the line between grossly offensive and snowflakeism can be surprisingly contentious

[/quote]

True dat. Someone got offended on a certain Facebook group because someone mocked their colleague/friend's poor handwriting, and they said such a comment was offensive to dyslexic people

Makes me ponder whenever I tell someone I'm colourblind. It's always followed by a "what colour is my t-shirt" and so on for about 10 minutes. Doesn't bother me of course, other than it being tiresome. But it occurs to me that there are no other "disabilities" (strong word, but you know what I mean) where, upon telling someone that you have it, they test you on it and laugh.

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 12:34:49 GMT

[quote user="Chris Geddes"]

Am I supposed to respond "Oy - you can call me a paki as you're also asian, but you're not allowed to call me a poofter as you're not also homoosexual"?

What if he then responds with "Ah it's ok, I'm homosexual as well, so it's all good"

[/quote]

Surely if you were both homosexual your gaydar would be good enough to know without being told

[quote user="Chris Geddes"]Surely it's best that we all avoid using terms that are grossly offensive...and the snowflakes stop getting offended by terms that clearly aren't![/quote]

I think that's the gist of the "hip hop should stop using the N word argument". The trouble is the line between grossly offensive and snowflakeism can be surprisingly contentious

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Wren — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:33:24 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]By 'eck (hoping that's not cultutral misappropriation)[/quote]

Depends where you come from. If you're not from Yorkshire then I claim the right to be offended (but probably not discriminated against) as the wife of a born-and-bred Yorkshireman. If you are from Yorkshire then have at it, it's your cultural right!

RE: Discrimination in the veterinary profession

Chris Geddes — Tue, 16 Jul 2019 11:24:42 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]

It is a double standard, but the gist of the argument is that if people from within that community choose to reclaim a word that's been historically used in a pejorative fashion, that's up to them. It's similar, but not quite the same, as those who feel queer is the best way to describe their sexuality.

[/quote]

Never understood this. So let's say I'm a homosexual asian man, and another asian man refers to me as a "paki poofter".

Am I supposed to respond "Oy - you can call me a paki as you're also asian, but you're not allowed to call me a poofter as you're not also homoosexual"?

What if he then responds with "Ah it's ok, I'm homosexual as well, so it's all good".

"Ah ok then, as you were"

Surely it's best that we all avoid using terms that are grossly offensive...and the snowflakes stop getting offended by terms that clearly aren't!