Ooh hassle.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 20:14:56 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

[quote user="Huw Stacey"]I completely agree, and this is why all in-store practices in the Vets4Pets/Companion Care Group are internally audited to ensure that they have 24/7 access to the clinic independent of retail hours (even if they use an external OOH service provider).[/quote]

I personally know some where everyone must be out when shop is closed. I also know some that don't and have access through the back door.

[/quote]

that ought to be 100% unacceptable, and I wonder why the RCVS is not doing something about that sort of thing instead of pillorying someone for not staying up all night with a dog they thought was OK?

RE: Ooh hassle.

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 17:27:56 GMT

I personally know some where everyone must be out when shop is closed. I also know some that don't and have access through the back door.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Clive Ansell — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 17:17:25 GMT

Do they?

I have been told on more than one occasion, and in more than one clinic, that there is no way of accessing the building once the main store is closed. I have also been told by management and JVP's that animals are not kept overnight.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Huw Stacey — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:21:02 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

I do think that 24 hour access to staff should be mandatory. What if something happens to your own dog etc. Someone must be the keyholder for the building, why can't the vet still have the key and alarm code if the retail area is closed? Being out and locked up by 8pm whatever happens is not congruent with running a vet practice.

[/quote]

I completely agree, and this is why all in-store practices in the Vets4Pets/Companion Care Group are internally audited to ensure that they have 24/7 access to the clinic independent of retail hours (even if they use an external OOH service provider).

The acid test is that they must have a way of continuing to care for a critical hospitalised patient (eg. a dyspnoeic cat on oxygen) that will not tolerate a transfer to another practice.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Stephen Courtney — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 15:12:00 GMT

I have three good friends who are JVPs

they have access to their practices OOH and stay late if they need to

I think the situation the OP refer to is an issue created by someone who wants to get home on time, so gives an excuse they have to be out by 8pm.

Sending a case you cannot cope with to another vet is fine but you have to ASK first , and if they can't take it, guess what, it's still YOUR case

RE: Ooh hassle.

Nicola Cole — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 13:07:42 GMT

[quote user="vs0u "]

how do they know animal welfare is going to be best served by randomly sending them elsewhere? The other vet may be out on a call and not back for an hour.

[/quote]

Certainly for one of the cases the client phoned first. The other sounds like there was a phone call involved as well. At which point the other vet can say whether they are out on a call and not back for an hour.

Don’t get me wrong-I know it’s frustrating and I think the first vet should speak directly to the second before advising client about going elsewhere.

All I’m saying is that I would give the first vet the benefit of the doubt and arrange to talk to them DIRECTLY. We all know things are lost in translation with owners. And we don’t know what pressures from on high the first vet has been put under to not delay closing. Personally I wouldn’t work under these conditions, but the question of whether veterinary practices should be allowed to operate out of facilities that ‘have to shut at x time’ isn’t really what’s being discussed here. (For the record I really don’t think veterinary practices should be within a shop that has to shut exactly on time).

RE: Ooh hassle.

Kate Richardson — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 12:21:07 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Kate, it is as simple as practice professionally and in accordance with the GTPC.[/quote]

I agree with you, and this has digressed from advice to the OP to an interesting discussion about how some practices work (or don't!)

I am 100% in agreement that local practices providing OOH cover should not be taken advantage of by other practices that do not.

All I was trying to say was that until all the facts are known, we shouldn't judge.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Dinu Catilina — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 07:56:39 GMT

[quote user="Alistair Graham-Evans"]What does the RCVS code say about home visit vets who switch their phone off whenever it is an inconvenient hour?[/quote]

The one I know doesn't! She also has a contract with vetsnow for night and week-ends. If during day time she needs a few hours off she would call our practice and ask for our permission to redirect clients.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Alistair Graham-Evans — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 06:34:00 GMT

Could it be this ? Or that?

Maybe Anon could phone the other vet up and ask about what is going on and report back so we can all be aware of the facts.

What does the RCVS code say about home visit vets who switch their phone off whenever it is an inconvenient hour? We have many clients who use home visit vets for routine work but come to us day or night when the animal is ill and needs facilities not found in a small bag.

RE: Ooh hassle.

vs0u — Tue, 09 Jul 2019 00:27:11 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]

Could be a bit thoughtless or it could be the vet genuinely thought that the animal was best served being seen locally/as soon as possible. The first case mentioned the cat was ‘breathing’ strangely and the second one the animal was in respiratory distress.

The vet may be genuinely concerned for these animals and in a bind because the practice has to close before the pet shop is locked up-and they just want to do the best thing in terms of animal welfare.

[/quote]

Disagree with this. If it was a one off the vet should phone the other practice and explain the situation, preferably after triaging the patient and giving first aid and doing as much as possible themselves. After all how do they know animal welfare is going to be best served by randomly sending them elsewhere? The other vet may be out on a call and not back for an hour.

Anon says this happened several times recently and is clients phoning - sounds like they just can't be bothered and are fobbing them off.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 23:06:52 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Eh? Wouldn't trust another vet with my dogs.[/quote]

Your humility is your only fault.

RE: Ooh hassle.

David Mills — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 23:02:08 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]You go to the OOH provider? If it is good enough for your clients, it is good enough for you.[/quote]

Eh? Wouldn't trust another vet with my dogs.

[/quote]

Not even your wife?

RE: Ooh hassle.

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 22:32:59 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Keir"]You go to the OOH provider? If it is good enough for your clients, it is good enough for you.[/quote]

Eh? Wouldn't trust another vet with my dogs.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Sarah Keir — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 21:42:24 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

What if something happens to your own dog etc.

[/quote]

You go to the OOH provider? If it is good enough for your clients, it is good enough for you.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 20:34:42 GMT

Kate, it is as simple as practice professionally and in accordance with the GTPC. Take responsibility for the animals under your care. If you cannot do that in your current practice then you cannot work there. It's very simple. It is black and white. I'd not risk my career in a role where I couldn't do that. No one should.

I don't particularly care where your practice is, but I do think that 24 hour access to staff should be mandatory. What if something happens to your own dog etc. Someone must be the keyholder for the building, why can't the vet still have the key and alarm code if the retail area is closed? Being out and locked up by 8pm whatever happens is not congruent with running a vet practice.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Kate Richardson — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 20:26:39 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

Rightly we are individually responsible for our actions. If none of the pet shop practices could get staff they'd vanish.

I think sympathising with individuals is the wrong way of looking at this. There's lots of jobs out there for vets. If your job compromises your morals then leave. I have no respect for someone staying in such a role. None whatsoever.

[/quote]

Yes of course we are responsible for our actions. And yes there are lots of jobs. But what if you have a sick or elderly or disabled member of your family who needs you close by and this job enables you to be a carer and a worker. Things are not black and white Michael. You might be able to jump on your moral high horse, but not everyone else can always do that, even they wanted to. What's your answer, close all pet shop practices and put people out of jobs so they are forced to choose a 'morally' better one?

RE: Ooh hassle.

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 19:45:32 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]what is that you disagree about with my post? I'm not condoning their behaviour, but I am just thinking of reasons why. We have no idea what is ging on in other people's lives. If it's affecting work, then it needs addressing however.[/quote]

Vets propping up the broken system. Rightly we are individually responsible for our actions. If none of the pet shop practices could get staff they'd vanish.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Bob Russell — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 14:06:20 GMT

Worth checking with the practice to make sure you have the right story. Owners are often not completely truthful.

A number of our clients are registered with the nearby hospital as well as us and I am sure they find this irritating to say the least. Not sure how this can be avoided.

Had a client let us know that they tried to contact me on a Sunday and did not get an answer! Our phone company checked the logs and there was no issue. The client did not get the message they wanted so suddenly it was our fault. Again annoying for our neighbouring practice, I have no doubt.

I would never force an out of hours case on to another practice but some still manage to end up there.

Thankfully we do not have restrictions on the times we are open and we could hospitalise patients as long as I could ensure proper care. A lot of retail units do not allow this and the planners seem to be adding this to permissions.

Document, contact the practice for comment and ultimately complain if the response is inadequate.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Rob Loxley — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 13:42:44 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]but ultimately it the system that is wrong, not the individual vet[/quote]

But the professional responsibility lies with the individual vet

RE: Ooh hassle.

Mark Hedberg — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 12:52:31 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

Another thing, remember that the vet working in the 'pet shop practice' is just a vet like you and me that may need this job due to location, family commitments, hours etc etc, so don't automatically jump down their throat. It may be they chose that job cos they are a lazy sh**e, but ultimately it the system that is wrong, not the individual vet.

[/quote]

Probably the 'lazy sh**e' comment - i know what you said but the written word is often taken out of context!

RE: Ooh hassle.

Kate Richardson — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 10:22:25 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

Kate, I agreed with one post and disagreed with the other. What I am disagreeing with is the statement that the system is wrong and not the individual. A wrong system can only survive because of the individuals working in it. This is very likely to be controversial and I will upset quite a few people saying it but if the system is wrong it's the duty of the people working in it to try and change it. The idea of having a veterinary practice in a pet shop is in my opinion the biggest issue. We all know of so many cases that turn up just before closing times and we have to stay longer to deal with them and a system that does not allow this does not provide a good quality of care to their patient.

I know that good people work for Pets at Home. An extremely good friend is a JVP an I know he would do anything he can to help his patients. But it is also unacceptable in my opinion to just settle for the excuse that the shop closes at 8.

An extreme comparison: the cold callers that rip elders off by selling them phones/windows/ insurance they don't need. They also need a job, we don't know what's going on in their life, they have families, etc. But I blame them as much as the company they work for.

[/quote]

I know what you are saying, but it is also difficult, poss impossible, for some people to have the capacity to change it, yes they could up sticks and leave, but they may be dependent on that job for many reasons and may only have the energy/resources to go in and do that job to the best of their ability according to their personal circumstances; fighting for change takes a lot of guts and energy. What I meant by the system was the management, maybe I should have been clearer.

Options, for example, would be that if the shop closes at 6, the vet clinic closes at 5 to allow for those late emergencies.

I also hate cold callers, but again, they are often in the same situation. If you don't have to worry about every last penny, it is a luxury and to think that they will rock the boat, is naive. I bet a lot of them hate their job, but have little choice.And yes, you always have a choice, but sometimes that choice has to be to stay put and keep your head down, for whatever reason.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 10:07:21 GMT

RE: Ooh hassle.

Iain Richards — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 09:48:51 GMT

Anon and others in this position.

Record the details, making sure they are accurate and verifiable. Contact the, "at fault" practice, record their response.

Repeat. If there is a pattern, then the complaint to RCVS is harder to dismiss.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Kate Richardson — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 09:13:44 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]

[/quote]

Michael Woodhouse Dinu Catilina and m_n who I can't link to- what is that you disagree about with my post? I'm not condoning their behaviour, but I am just thinking of reasons why. We have no idea what is ging on in other people's lives. If it's affecting work, then it needs addressing however.

RE: Ooh hassle.

Nicola Cole — Mon, 08 Jul 2019 06:59:04 GMT

[quote user="vs0u "]

We have pet shop practices here and they don't tell their clients to come to us, so it sounds like it may be a specific vet who's a bit thoughtless.

[/quote]

Or they could be taking the mick!

Talk to them and find out then you can decide how to play it.