Public trust

RE: Public trust

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 10:09:36 GMT

I would think it is only if stuck in the dark ages and it then offers a dignified exit sometimes. I know vets the same age and older than me with amazing skills and completely up to date so it should never be based on a number.

That was my point

RE: Public trust

vetbl.locum — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 09:19:16 GMT

That is just 3 years before me!!

Is there further background to this decision? Or has RCVS decided to set an retirement age?

Rgds

RE: Public trust

Wren — Fri, 07 Jun 2019 08:43:19 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]

I wonder if they are hoping she will retire, she seems to have graduated in 1979, which is quite a bit earlier than even me. It sounds as though she was overwhelmed.

I know of a local colleague this week accused of stealing pups after a caesarian as a lay scanner had scanned it for multiple pups and it only had one. That case won’t help anyone.

[/quote]

Burglar Bill confessions aside, I think the idea that they are pushing her towards retirement is a definite possibility.

RE: Public trust

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 20:27:59 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]

Oh god, must learn to proof read! Missing the not!

[/quote] made me laugh out loud , so thank you

RE: Public trust

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 20:26:21 GMT

Oh god, must learn to proof read! Missing the not!

RE: Public trust

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 20:17:23 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]

I was referring to the other case that was mentioned, not the puppy stealing, and the fact the Rcvs want her to get her practice in order whlist she is suspended. Sorry, i confused the issue by mentioning the puppy stealing separately at the end. I wasn’t suggesting age causes puppy stealing, sorry Clare. (For what it’s worth I’m a 1983 graduate and i also have shoplifted).

[/quote] only joking Joyce, not at all offended , though I’m slightly worried about your shoplifting confession above ....

RE: Public trust

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 20:06:50 GMT

RE: Public trust

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 19:44:00 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]

I wonder if they are hoping she will retire, she seems to have graduated in 1979, which is quite a bit earlier than even me. It sounds as though she was overwhelmed.

I know of a local colleague this week accused of stealing pups after a caesarian as a lay scanner had scanned it for multiple pups and it only had one. That case won’t help anyone.

[/quote]that’s a very “ courageous” comment Joyce!

I qualified in 1978 I haven’t started shoplifting yet !

RE: Public trust

Joyce Whitehead — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 19:09:35 GMT

I wonder if they are hoping she will retire, she seems to have graduated in 1979, which is quite a bit earlier than even me. It sounds as though she was overwhelmed.

I know of a local colleague this week accused of stealing pups after a caesarian as a lay scanner had scanned it for multiple pups and it only had one. That case won’t help anyone.

RE: Public trust

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 18:44:45 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]

The summary comment is a little concerning though:

"The Committee also believed that during these six months Dr Mulvey could reflect and reorganise her practice, and there would be little risk to animals and the public in her returning to practice.”

They want her to spend the 6 month suspension bringing her practice up to PSS core standards. However if there is no income coming in I'm pretty sure that the practice will not be there in 6 months time. I don't think any of us could afford to pay our bills, and mortgage/rent, and not only maintain, but improve, our practices for 6 months without a single client coming through the door. Or afford to live if employing a locum to cover the period.

I guess that's not their problem!

[/quote]

Exactly my thought.

RE: Public trust

Bob Russell — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 17:38:28 GMT

It astounds me that anyone would consider this sort of action. An offer to take and nurse a puppy is one thing but to do so without the owners knowledge is completely unacceptable IMO.

If there are welfare concerns there are well documented actions that can be taken. RSPCA etc.

I did get a Boxer puppy in lieu of unpaid bills once. I probably got the better deal!

There have been plenty of accusations from breeders that there were 'missing' puppies so this stupid behaviour risks giving ammunition to the nuttier fringe of the dog breeding fraternity.

One DC decision where I have no sympathy and one where I have all the sympathy in the world for veterinary staff concerned!!

RE: Public trust

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 17:28:35 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

I just don't get it...

[/quote]

Exactly.

Did she think she was doing the pup a favour?

RE: Public trust

Wren — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 16:16:37 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

I cannot really see where lying to a client is acceptable or taking a puppy for whatever reason can be OK.

Checking through the recent DC decisions brought a really difficult situation to light.

https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/news/rcvs-news-disciplinary-committee-suspends-an-oxfordshire-based/

I don't know the person involved but do recognise how easy single handed vet practice can run away with you and create a real mess.

I have a really good team supporting me and reading this makes me appreciate them all the more!

It seems to be a case where an individual is putting everything into being a vet at a great cost to themselves!!

[/quote]

I agree Bob. I suspect that it was just a case of complete failure to keep all the plates spinning.

The summary comment is a little concerning though:

I guess that's not their problem!

RE: Public trust

Robert FalconerTaylor — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 16:15:04 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]

...social media will have a field day with it for a long time to come

[/quote]

It's the apparent, pre-meditated & colusional taste of it that's so 'sensational' - worse in that way than nicking from the bosses till, the tabloid-reading public would understand that!

RE: Public trust

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 15:51:24 GMT

I read about this and my heart sank for all the vets in the future who do a Caesarian on a bitch and are then suspected/ accused of stealing a pup. This really does bring the profession into disrepute and social media will have a field day with it for a long time to come

RE: Public trust

Bob Russell — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 14:05:20 GMT

I cannot really see where lying to a client is acceptable or taking a puppy for whatever reason can be OK.

Checking through the recent DC decisions brought a really difficult situation to light.

https://www.rcvs.org.uk/news-and-views/news/rcvs-news-disciplinary-committee-suspends-an-oxfordshire-based/

I don't know the person involved but do recognise how easy single handed vet practice can run away with you and create a real mess.

I have a really good team supporting me and reading this makes me appreciate them all the more!

It seems to be a case where an individual is putting everything into being a vet at a great cost to themselves!!

RE: Public trust

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 12:59:35 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]This is one of the reasons I think as a profession we should be paid more.[/quote]

How?

RE: Public trust

Anthony Todd — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 12:01:01 GMT

I did think about colostrum and perinatal care?

RE: Public trust

Kate Richardson — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 11:13:38 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]We are one of the few professions whose livelihood is at risk if we transgress.[/quote]

This is one of the reasons I think as a profession we should be paid more.

RE: Public trust

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 10:47:02 GMT

What a chain of bad decisions. There were 2 puppies removed not just one. Two members of staff were involved so it was planned not just a mistake. To make things worse they dragged down a second vet who ended up being investigated.

I just don't get it...

RE: Public trust

Jill Butterworth — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:55:35 GMT

Maybe she just didn't have a wise nurse on hand to advise her to sign the puppy over?

RE: Public trust

Francisco Gomez — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 09:02:28 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]

I'd like to think she thought she was taking the puppy for more animal welfare related reasons (although obviously still wrong)

[/quote]

I agree.

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

The full report on the RCVS case mentions her concern for the pup's welfare.

The public trust is still there though - cases such as this show our disciplinary process works in principle.

[/quote]

Correct. Perhaps that's why she was suspended as opposed to struck off.

It does, however, reinforce the feeling that there nothing we can do about some patients' welfare. Maybe it is a good thing, I wouldn't want to have the responsibility of what happens at home.

But, on the other hand. What would happen if this vet was to report her client for cruelty if she was to say that the puppy will die unless you do A, B and C (or even despite A, B and C) and the client still refuses to take the vet advice because it costs money that the client doesn't wish to spend? I'm of course talking hypothetically.

RE: Public trust

Iain Richards — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 08:44:42 GMT

The full report on the RCVS case mentions her concern for the pup's welfare.

The public trust is still there though - cases such as this show our disciplinary process works in principle. We are one of the few professions whose livelihood is at risk if we transgress. These are the sort of cases that younger vets and those of a nervous disposition need to remember. To get struck off you need to be morally bad, not just wrong in your diagnosis.

RE: Public trust

Julie Innes — Thu, 06 Jun 2019 08:42:58 GMT

I did wonder that as well, Francisco. I can't really imagine a vet stealing a puppy to what- sell?? Because she couldn't afford to buy? Maybe I am biased towards the vet's side (knowing that clients say all sorts) but I'd like to think she thought she was taking the puppy for more animal welfare related reasons (although obviously still wrong)

RE: Public trust

Francisco Gomez — Wed, 05 Jun 2019 21:17:05 GMT

[quote user="Robert FalconerTaylor"]

. Happens I guess - monetary gain or not, theft is theft. Includes staff helping themselves to drugs, paperclips and post-it notes w/o asking.....

[/quote]

I was exploring whether there is another dimension to this case besides theft. The puppy did die a couple of days later.