Salary expectation

RE: Salary expectation

Julie Innes — Mon, 03 Jun 2019 08:57:12 GMT

Thanks George, I agree we need to up the little things, but I generally do a fee increase every year, at the same time and by the same amount as I put all the staff wages up! (August). I think we do have room to increase some things a little more, and, as we have another vet starting after August, I may well do that.

RE: Salary expectation

George Cooper — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 17:33:44 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]

Julie, and TT from your 2002 branch figures I've been reminded of a couple of thoughts, one of which will need a hard drive explotration which demonstrates how giving any sort of discount can decimate profits, and as with any amount given away, does it actually bring any benefit at all, (other than that inner feeling of feeling good)? HOWEVER - that said, and this is probably muttered to you Julie, - there is always, always room for individual acts of charity where it is appropriate and is indicated. I guess that means that you set your fees just that little bit above where you are 'comfortable' and bear in mind that when you have that choice between cancelling a fee completely or killing the pet, you know that it can be viewed as covered.

The second point was kicked into gear by TT and his stats snippet. Often it is better, when raising fees, NOT to stick it on the most expensive procedures - like a splenectomy - but to preferentially increase the things you do the most. In an average practice that is likely to be consultations, maybe repeat consults too, and boosters. People (VSs) tend to view boosters as ring-around items and to defuse that negativity, there are various ways in which you can rise above the "fear" of being more expensive. First is to realise that, out of the 100 boosters you do per month, it is only ever a small minority that will phone around. You can assess this by counting the number of clients who ring to ask, and also the anonymous callers who ring and ask - and it is NOT that many. This doesn't, as I'm sure will be pointed out, deal with the discount shops!! From a personal point I dont like the word "check" as in check-up, or "quick check" as I feel it devalues the procedure. I prefer "monitoring" monitor, assess, assessment when applied to a vet or a nurse looking over and forming an opinion about a pet. So - vis-a-vis booster reminders - creative use of English in the invitation, a reminder of the "assessment" involved, stressing the benefits of the maintenance of health (as opposed to 'detecting something wrong, early' can all bear fruit. One of the most important elements which I suspect are at the fore up in Scotland is to make things as personal as possible to that pet and that owner, to make then feel special and valued.

Other items that can be massaged that you do lots of would be dispensing fees and injection fees - on the basis that a small rise in what you do frequently leverages the bottom line in a better way. Just a few thoughts triggered by recent posts - and my apologies if grannies and eggs come to mind!!

[/quote]

Apologies for the abysmal quality of these inserts - taken from thumbnails of bygone presentations. The first illustrates the increase in volume needed to maintain profits after a discount, and the second half illustrates how, by increasing fees you can afford too lose a few difficult clients!! The green bits reflected the "average" existing gross margin as existed 20 years ago. Merely an illustration.

The second pic is of a conundrum given to vet students at the Lancaster SPVS gathering where they were asked to do the calculations and give examples in each category. Most did not appreciate that a vet practice is a Fixed Cost business, and by definition, actually making savings therein is extremely tricky.

These are presented simply as food for thought and are not meant to be taken as gospel!! Hopefully they might be of use to some who are grappling with difficult situations.

RE: Salary expectation

Rob Loxley — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 14:49:35 GMT

[quote user="niall morton"]

This figure get banded about but no one ever says if it’s inclufing or excluding va. as vat isn’t ever really ours I’d presume it’s ex vat. But most employees don’t have a clue about costs and if they look at their turnover it’ll inevitably include vat

[/quote]

Net of VAT; the numbers we present to our vets are all net of VAT. Where the practice has a sizeable pet health scheme and vets are therefore doing a lot of work not charged in the consult room, some allowance for pet health income in a vet's turnover should be made.

RE: Salary expectation

niall morton — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 12:15:51 GMT

RE: Salary expectation

Chris Milligan — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 06:30:35 GMT

[quote user="Luciano Nebiante PGCertSAS"]How much would offer as salary per annum to such a candidate?[/quote]

20% of your turnover in the clinic is the usual quoted going rate. If you're a very high performer in terms of income generated this can make the boss's eye water as they're often happy to get the high income but may have reservations about paying you your worth if it's high. If you're that good (and even if you're not in todays market to be honest), then you can and should command your own salary. Those that are worth working for will be willing to pay it.

RE: Salary expectation

Anthony Todd — Sun, 02 Jun 2019 05:41:03 GMT

I doubt if any client could argue if fees increased annually just in line with inflation although it gets a bit silly if the consult becomes £xx.19 etc. if you just do it arithmetically?

RE: Salary expectation

James Dunne — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 20:39:20 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]

[/quote] Very much agree with George on this! That being said, there's nothing wrong with feeling good - so long as like so many things that elevate one's mood, we don't become addicted to discounting…we are hard-wired to remember the <5% who phone around/ complain etc and not the 95% who don't. Mostly it is 'what-if' fear that holds us back on fee increases rather than reality. There are doubtless many views on how to structure fees and it probably doesn't really matter which way you do it so long as they are charged and you don't become a busy fool. I also agree that the language we use to describe what we do each day can change how we view (and value, not just in monetary terms) our procedures, our practices and our selves.

RE: Salary expectation

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 20:04:19 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]We have this. We opened 7 months ago and a repeat/reduced consult fee does not make any sense.[/quote]

It can make sense. It depends entirely on how you structure your fees. It's personal preference, it's how you choose to set out your stall. It would be just as sensible, if you so choose, to have a really big first consultation fee and much reduced repeat consultation fee. There's no special right or wrong.

RE: Salary expectation

Dinu Catilina — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 19:01:12 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]I locum for a practice where there is one consult fee, that's it, no repeat, nothing else[/quote]

We have this. We opened 7 months ago and a repeat/reduced consult fee does not make any sense. It's still 15 minutes of my time so why should I charge less? Some of our clients do notice and mention it but we haven't lost any yet.

RE: Salary expectation

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 17:37:02 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]Often it is better, when raising fees, NOT to stick it on the most expensive procedures - like a splenectomy - but to preferentially increase the things you do the most. In an average practice that is likely to be consultations, maybe repeat consults too, and boosters. [/quote]

I locum for a practice where there is one consult fee, that's it, no repeat, nothing else

Changed a few years ago 'clients don't seem to notice' according to the principal.

I have never seen that anywhere else

Neil

RE: Salary expectation

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 17:31:36 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]If I paid myself more it would just be more money going into savings/ investments[/quote]

As long as you're comfortable now, and saving enough to be comfortable later, then I guess that's enough.

I am no millionaire. But we made/saved enough to allow us the choice to retire at 55, have put 2 kids through private school and uni, buy a lovely house etc and have a good standard of living. Considering how hard we worked since a young age, I feel we earned it.

You can always choose who/what to donate your savings to if you get too many.

RE: Salary expectation

Anthony Todd — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 15:42:04 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]ust a few thoughts triggered by recent posts - and my apologies if grannies and eggs come to mind!![/quote]

First of all have many of you ever heard of paragraphs which can drive nails through the concrete of opaque dogma!!

And there is a dedicated button for them too!! it's the ENTER big one on the right!

Back to the matter via a simple example viz the KFC corn-cob.

Just a palpate and ex-lap and enter-whatever but not these days and neither is an obvious quick and definitive diagnosis appreciated or accepted.

So tests have been the way fees have been secretly increased and vets jumping into the obvious and correct solution miss out financially.

I can show figures of the massive difference between competent, usually "good", vets and the diagnostic tests and even microchipping which occured,

Staggering financially.

RE: Salary expectation

George Cooper — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 14:39:40 GMT

RE: Salary expectation

Anthony Todd — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 14:13:57 GMT

This from the busiest branch in Jan 2002 could be of interest [can add ops etc.]

Turnover (Gross Sales)	£ 28.673.01
# of Consults (10)	168
# of Vaccines (50)	104
Total # of Contacts	272

RE: Salary expectation

Julie Innes — Sat, 01 Jun 2019 12:29:35 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]actually think you're nuts. Hope your clients appreciate it, but I'm afraid I suspect they are assuming you are better paid, so you may be making the sacrifice for nothing.[/quote]

I'm sure they think I'm rolling in cash, as we all know vets are ! I actually think our charges are pretty comparable to most nearby practices, but we don't charge lots of add-ons. And I am certainly not making any sacrifices! I live well, have nice holidays etc. But I don't generally have an expensive lifestyle! If I paid myself more it would just be more money going into savings/ investments and more tax to pay!

RE: Salary expectation

Alison Clare Hickman — Fri, 31 May 2019 21:27:16 GMT

Gillian Mostyn

I know people who'd moan about things that weren't to their standards, even if was free... and even be dissatisfied if you paid them...

RE: Salary expectation

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 31 May 2019 20:59:32 GMT

You could halve all your fees and you'd still get the same number of moaners.

Someone wise once told me that unless 10% of your clients complain about the cost, you're too cheap!

RE: Salary expectation

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 31 May 2019 15:55:50 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]People will pay over £1000 for a new phone but not their pets C-section.[/quote]

People will pay £2000 for a puppy then moan about the price of vaccinations.

RE: Salary expectation

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 31 May 2019 15:39:20 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I own my own business, and pay myself far far less than the OP is looking for![/quote]

I actually think you're nuts. Hope your clients appreciate it, but I'm afraid I suspect they are assuming you are better paid, so you may be making the sacrifice for nothing.

RE: Salary expectation

Anthony Todd — Fri, 31 May 2019 15:32:20 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"] Different strokes for different folks.[/quote]

Where are your charges when compared with your local competitors?

Are you better or worse than them?

Don't charge less then. You will still be happy!

Or do more tests......

RE: Salary expectation

Julie Innes — Fri, 31 May 2019 15:02:13 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"] People will pay over £1000 for a new phone but not their pets C-section. Keep things in perspective and know your worth. You are not responsible for the poor decisions of others and you shouldn't be subsidising th[/quote]

But therein lies the problem! It's not so much about our worth as the animal's worth, and sadly, to the owner that is often, as you say, less than the latest phone. Problem is, to me it is not the animal's fault that it has a F*witt for an owner.

Yes, we are underpaid (I own my own business, and pay myself far far less than the OP is looking for!) but if I wanted to be rich I'd do something else. Wealth really doesn't always equal happiness. I could pay myself more and be less philanthropic, but somehow I feel my self-worth would actually be less. Different strokes for different folks.

RE: Salary expectation

Anthony Todd — Fri, 31 May 2019 13:25:43 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]The surgery is best done by someone who does them every day,[/quote]

[doesn't apply too well to english test cricketers....]

As always opinions without any evidence, which means actually recording everything, not opinion.......

One would think so, but good surgeons get better results than bad surgeons but I've got no proof ,or stats, it's just my belief.....

One of the early papers on cruciate repair written by an "eminent" vet didn't include my client's total f'ing disaster......

Stats, today, are so easy to get!

RE: Salary expectation

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 31 May 2019 13:16:41 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]You are convinced TPLOs are better, for instance, and recommend this to a client. [/quote]

OK...I'll revise my statement. The surgery is best done by someone who does them every day, whether a lateral suture, TTA or TPLO. Comparing a GP doing a lateral suture with an ortho doing a TPLO is not a fair comparison.

I've done and seen many lateral sutures end with great success when referral wasn't an option, but have also seen failures and chronic lameness. In my personal experience, the dogs that have had TPLOs with the surgeons I have used for years generally fare better with quicker return to full function and little need for long term analgesia.

RE: Salary expectation

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 31 May 2019 13:07:21 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]We charge pretty modestly. I know we get told we should value ourselves more highly, [/quote]

The problem is that people equate cost and quality. Maybe they shouldn't, but they do.

You can ask someone for 20p for an apple and they will decide on its quality. Put a £1.50 label on the same apple, in a different shop, and suddenly it becomes a better apple.

Of course you should charge what you and the business deem sensible. But beware giving the impression that the service you provide is inferior to those who charge more. You will be popular, but at the expense of your time and financial wealth (which you are entitled to).

[quote user="Julie Innes"]but when I hear stories of bitches in labour being euthanized because owners can't afford a section, or (more recently ) of pyos being euthanized for the same reason, I am glad I am the boss and can set my own pricing. [/quote]

While your philanthropy is admirable, I'm in the camp of people who think vets and nurses are generally underpaid. People will pay over £1000 for a new phone but not their pets C-section. Keep things in perspective and know your worth. You are not responsible for the poor decisions of others and you shouldn't be subsidising them.

RE: Salary expectation

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 31 May 2019 12:27:53 GMT

Such agonising.

If you believe you are worth a salary of eighty thousand pounds, then ask for it. The prospective employer might say yes or might say no. If they say no, you can either haggle or you can look elsewhere.