What are you doing to save the planet?

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Silvia Maldonado — Tue, 14 May 2019 18:38:34 GMT

Being vegetarian.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Miriam Lodewyks — Tue, 14 May 2019 18:33:22 GMT

I've set up a registered charity called Animal Saviours, which in turn funds a charity in South Africa called Care For Wild: a baby-rhino orphanage run by a marvellous lady called Petronel Niewoudt.

If anyone's interested, have a listen to Kevin Pietersen's podcast "Beast of man".

And then please feel free to donate something to them, or to Animal Saviours. I can personally vouch for the fact that every penny genuinely goes to the animals that need it.

Oh, and no plastic bottles, straws, clingfilm in my house either!

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Iain Richards — Mon, 13 May 2019 16:25:31 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]But, seriously, who do you (or anyone else, not personal) think you are to judge or interfere in someone else's life?![/quote]

The same was presumably said about Wilberforce, or Pankhurst....

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Chris Geddes — Mon, 13 May 2019 16:17:56 GMT

[quote user="Sammy82"]Even 5p is enough to significantly change people's behaviour as the plastic bag scheme has shown. [/quote]

The 5p charged has made a slight difference in number of bags used, but not enough. Not even enough to make the overall use of plastic in bags decrease, as people are using much thicker "bags for life" only once. An example of a well-meaning initiative to decrease use of plastic but has so far had the opposite effect.

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/plastic-bag-for-life-waste-5p-charge-michael-gove-iceland-tesco-pollution-a8699441.html

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Bob Russell — Mon, 13 May 2019 15:31:28 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

The 20 hottest years have all been in the last 22 years.

The last 4 years have been the hottest on record.

2019 looks set to continue this trend. Ignore at your peril.

[/quote]

The 20 hottest days recorded does not mean the 20 hottest days. The cause may or may not be human but it makes sense to work on the worst case scenario.

China may be a top country for renewables but it is a pretty bloo=y awful country for coal produced energy. China is also building roads, railways and airports at a fearsome rate.

People harp on about excessive packaging and overall I agree but this packaging dramatically reduces damage, protects the product and reduces waste at shop level.

None of these arguments/discussions are black and white. We can pressure governments to do better., we can try to do a bit ourselves.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 13 May 2019 14:49:42 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Don't hate vapers. [/quote]Please sir, can we laugh at them, sucking away on their ludicrous oral-satisfaction devices?[/quote]

I admit, I felt like a bit of a tool, sucking on a thing that looked like an electric screwdriver. But being laughed at is a small price to pay for something that can wean you off the nicotine.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 13 May 2019 14:28:50 GMT

[quote user="Julian Earl"]I feel ashamed to be in the generation that could see the most splendid living species of animals wiped out: rhinos/ elephants, tigers, whales and the list goes on, and that is probably the saddest bit![/quote]

I thought the most interesting tit bit of information that came out after the unfortunate trampling of a British soldier in Malawi, was that since the army started helping the game wardens protect the animals the kill rate has gone from 24 elephants and 12 rhino/annum to zero.

Neil

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 13 May 2019 14:08:51 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Don't hate vapers. [/quote]

Please sir, can we laugh at them, sucking away on their ludicrous oral-satisfaction devices?

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Julian Earl — Mon, 13 May 2019 10:16:42 GMT

Do you, [collectively, not anyone in particular] think that we shall still be having this discussion in, say, 200 years? Okay (spoiler alert as well!) we won't be here then but I feel ashamed to be in the generation that could see the most splendid living species of animals wiped out: rhinos/ elephants, tigers, whales and the list goes on, and that is probably the saddest bit!

Wht does the Vetsurg.org collective think about this?

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 13 May 2019 09:27:58 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]But, seriously, who do you (or anyone else, not personal) think you are to judge or interfere in someone else's life?![/quote]

C'mon, only a saint isn't judgemental from time to time!

Judith Archbold

I know you are semi-joking, the problem is that so many of your points are true / sensible (eat less meat, fly less etc), it makes it hard to tell when you are being completely tongue in cheek ... so ...

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]Posh rich people need to stop breeding vast numbers of children[/quote]

As someone who probably fits that demographic, I don't think that is true and I dislike the inverse snobbery. I mean, why not say: 'benefit cheat peasants need to stop breeding vast numbers of children?'

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]stop wasting money on trying to save colonies of people living in drought affected areas of the world ....they should just move to where the water is.[/quote]

What, like the UK for example?

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]stop smoking / vaping ....it will improve air quality and make me less likely to hate you.[/quote]

Don't hate vapers. It saves lives.

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]They established that watching one feature film online consumes the same power as making 60 cups of tea. As demand for services such as YouTube, Netflix and Twitch, a site for gamers, may double or treble by 2030, the problem will only get worse.[/quote]

Very interesting. I do wonder, though, how much it is offset by not having to drive to the cinema (or manufacture and distribute DVDs) for example.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Julie Innes — Mon, 13 May 2019 09:22:27 GMT

Thank you so much for this, Neil! Now the next time my teens start lecturing me about how our generation have ruined the planet I can put it right back onto them! That will put their proverbial gas at a peep!

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

David Mills — Sun, 12 May 2019 22:42:45 GMT

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]

I’ve “ considered” your reply David .... rather than working on part 2 of my save the planet manifesto I’m setting -up a new charity to raise funds to “ Find a Sense of Humour on a Sunday Night for David”.

[/quote]

Thanks

But, seriously, who do you (or anyone else, not personal) think you are to judge or interfere in someone else's life?!

It's truly amazing. The arrogance!

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Judith Archbold — Sun, 12 May 2019 21:02:26 GMT

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

David Mills — Sun, 12 May 2019 20:49:27 GMT

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]

Planet Saving Manifesto According to ARCHBOLD.

Posh rich people need to stop breeding vast numbers of children.
stop wasting money on trying to save colonies of people living in drought affected areas of the world ....they should just move to where the water is.
stop eco warrior travel trips to exotic islands to discover animals ... they don’t need human intervention to screw up their habitats. ( NB. David Attenborough obviously except)
Stare at people in Tesco if they purchase something containing Palm oil and hold- up a flash card of an Orangutan fending- off a digger.
stare at people in Tesco who are buying bottled water. Really!? It comes out of a tap in my house you pretentious , beardy, hipster, gym - bunny, plastic -tantastic, sea turtle-murdering polluter .( NB. It takes a few years of practice to be able to relay this message with a stare but well worth the effort).
don’t buy 4 apples wrapped in polyestyrene and cling film,
don't use plastic straws..... drink out of a cup like a grown up.
stop smoking / vaping ....it will improve air quality and make me less likely to hate you.
ignore the Chinese ...maybe then they‘ll think about their behaviour and stop burning stuff and eating dogs.
turn off the Internet...let‘s get back to the good old days when we just didn’t know anything or covet anything we’d seen on Facebook so didn’t have to fly / drive anywhere to see it or get it.
stop manufacturing plastic ?? recycling bins.
leave your front garden for “ set aside” to encourage wild flowers and butterflies and bees ... plus it will annoy your neighbours / one less Christmas card to purchase so using less paper/card.
eat meat ... but only once a week.
eat fish ... but only once a week.
grow a potato and a tomato.
boycott The Archers ....Shula’s insistence on promoting fox hunting will never cease.
remind your neighbour they’re a “knob“ for having concreted over their driveway then wondering why it floods.
fly less.
drive less.
eat less.
heat your house to a max of 18 degrees....if cold wear the cardy that you got for Christmas.
sleep more .... you can’t be doing too much wrong if you‘ re asleep.

[/quote]

Wow. Judith, you normally write considered posts. Except this. Who the hell are you to tell people how to live?!? Please, grow up.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Neil Wheadon — Sun, 12 May 2019 20:36:08 GMT

I tried to explain why Cloud computing used more energy than flying earlier in this thread, but wasn't very good at it, However...

In the Sunday Times today

Surging demand for online video means Britain’s use of the internet needs electricity equivalent to six nuclear power stations, scientists say.

They established that watching one feature film online consumes the same power as making 60 cups of tea. As demand for services such as YouTube, Netflix and Twitch, a site for gamers, may double or treble by 2030, the problem will only get worse.

“We found that streaming a two-hour high-definition film on Netflix [or another online provider] equates to boiling over 10 kettles of water,” said Mike Hazas, a researcher in sustainable computing at Lancaster University.

Hazas and his colleagues wanted to find out how video streaming — already the most energy-intensive use of the internet — affects total power consumption.

Most of the energy for streaming films and other data is burnt not in homes but distant computer centres, leaving viewers unaware of how much they use. A video uploaded to Facebook from the UK, for example, will typically be transmitted 5,000 miles to data centres in Prineville, Oregon, and sent back each time a new person views it.

The researchers monitored the home internet habits of people including pensioners, students, teenagers and adult workers. Old or young, all were streaming video and other data.

“Our findings show a significant behavioural shift towards streaming as a default, with traditional broadcast TV or DVDs becoming obsolete,” said Kelly Widdicks, who worked with Hazas.

YouTube was the most data-greedy, accounting for nearly 50% of demand. Many families watched different programmes simultaneously in the same room, increasing data consumption.

The surge in internet energy demand and the consequent greenhouse gas emissions mean the government may have to rethink its policy of pushing for ever-faster internet speeds, said the researchers.

“The shift to internet-based services will have an increasing impact on society and the planet,” said Hazas, who added that streaming charges should rise to reflect their environmental impact.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Judith Archbold — Sun, 12 May 2019 19:21:15 GMT

Planet Saving Manifesto According to ARCHBOLD.

Posh rich people need to stop breeding vast numbers of children.
stop wasting money on trying to save colonies of people living in drought affected areas of the world ....they should just move to where the water is.
stop eco warrior travel trips to exotic islands to discover animals ... they don’t need human intervention to screw up their habitats. ( NB. David Attenborough obviously except)
Stare at people in Tesco if they purchase something containing Palm oil and hold- up a flash card of an Orangutan fending- off a digger.
stare at people in Tesco who are buying bottled water. Really!? It comes out of a tap in my house you pretentious , beardy, hipster, gym - bunny, plastic -tantastic, sea turtle-murdering polluter .( NB. It takes a few years of practice to be able to relay this message with a stare but well worth the effort).
don’t buy 4 apples wrapped in polyestyrene and cling film,
don't use plastic straws..... drink out of a cup like a grown up.
stop smoking / vaping ....it will improve air quality and make me less likely to hate you.
ignore the Chinese ...maybe then they‘ll think about their behaviour and stop burning stuff and eating dogs.
turn off the Internet...let‘s get back to the good old days when we just didn’t know anything or covet anything we’d seen on Facebook so didn’t have to fly / drive anywhere to see it or get it.
stop manufacturing plastic ?? recycling bins.
leave your front garden for “ set aside” to encourage wild flowers and butterflies and bees ... plus it will annoy your neighbours / one less Christmas card to purchase so using less paper/card.
eat meat ... but only once a week.
eat fish ... but only once a week.
grow a potato and a tomato.
boycott The Archers ....Shula’s insistence on promoting fox hunting will never cease.
remind your neighbour they’re a “knob“ for having concreted over their driveway then wondering why it floods.
fly less.
drive less.
eat less.
heat your house to a max of 18 degrees....if cold wear the cardy that you got for Christmas.
sleep more .... you can’t be doing too much wrong if you‘ re asleep.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Clive Ansell — Sun, 12 May 2019 17:40:31 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]

The 20 hottest years have all been in the last 22 years.

The last 4 years have been the hottest on record.

2019 looks set to continue this trend. Ignore at your peril.

[/quote]

Fabulous, bring it on. I love hot weather, and can stand any amount of it. Last summer was just great - my first UK holiday in years, 2 weeks on the North Cornish Coast, it was fantastic.

In contrast I went to Morocco in February 2018 to attempt a winter climb of Mount Mgoun, but there was an unprecedented amount of snow, about a meter deep in the valley, More than they have had in decades. So much in fact we couldn't even reach the mountain, let alone climb it, because the avalanche risk was too great.

Why the anon post?

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

An On MRCVS — Sun, 12 May 2019 16:44:24 GMT

The 20 hottest years have all been in the last 22 years.

The last 4 years have been the hottest on record.

2019 looks set to continue this trend. Ignore at your peril.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 10 May 2019 08:38:37 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Or, through the empowerment and education of women, who then decide for themselves how many babies they want, which is usually less than in a patriarchal society, because they can think of more interesting things to do than sit there churning out one baby after another.[/quote]

I love this paragraph.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 10 May 2019 08:28:38 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] the solution, to decarbonise the economy,[/quote]

But is that actually the solution?[/quote]

Not quite sure what you are getting at, because it seems so patently self-evident that if GW is caused by human consumption of fossil fuels, the solution would be to stop using fossil fuels.

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]What's not to like about electric cars powered by wind/solar/nuclear?[/quote]

Well, fine. But wind generation is pointless and damaging. Nuclear power yes, that's what we should be going for, but the same trendy eco-warriors who bang on about reducing CO2 emission are also rabidly anti-nuclear.[/quote]

I'm not talking about what trendy eco warriors think, I'm talking about what I think! Anyway, I don't think it's the trendy eco warriors that are stopping us building nuclear power plants.

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]What's not to like about a less crowded planet?[/quote]

Hmm, how will you achieve that?[/quote]

I think it will only come about when people a) become more worried about the effects of GW (ie after a few more catastrophic weather events), and b) realise that it is a consequence of there being too many people on the planet, and c) therefore decide for themselves to have less babies.

Or, as has been seen in the developed world, when child survival rates improve to the point where people realise that in order to have a couple of surviving children, you don't need to have 10.

Or, through the empowerment and education of women, who then decide for themselves how many babies they want, which is usually less than in a patriarchal society, because they can think of more interesting things to do than sit there churning out one baby after another.

[quote user="David Mills"]To be absolutely, perfectly, honest, in my lifetime (or any children I have in the future), there will, in my opinion, be no material or environmental disaster, or crisis, or other. I may well be horribly wrong.[/quote]

[quote user="David Mills"]So, as the Victorians did, I will not concern myself, except intellectually, with what may happen once I'm gone. I won't waste my time hand wringing about recycling, or where my energy comes from, or whether I can be "greener". Life is too short, and quite frankly my dear, I couldn't give a darn.[/quote]

I'll bet you almost anything you want that your opinion will change when/if you have children.

[quote user="David Mills"]But what there will be is unparalleled advances in many fields, most importantly and starkly medicine. In my opinion.[/quote]

I think that is beyond being just 'In my/your opinion': of course we're already seeing the exponential growth in human understanding/advances, largely as a result of greater information-sharing / collaboration etc.

Perhaps, just perhaps one of those advances will include the solution to GW. With apologies for the Guardian link: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/09/nuclear-fusion-on-brink-of-being-realised-say-mit-scientists

But we can't bank on that coming in time.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

David Mills — Fri, 10 May 2019 01:07:00 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="David Mills"]There has been a rise in CO2 and there is a rise in temperatures. But whether this is due to human activity or not is far from clear". [/quote]

David Mills Not according to NASA, which says 95% probability of being caused by human activity:

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Which also makes what seems to me to be a strong case against global warming (GW) being caused by variations in solar activity: https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

The potential consequences of GW are, it seems to me, catastrophic.

I don't think the UK is the immediate concern, might even be quite desirable to spend the summer on the Hampshire Riviera.

But from what I understand, the bigger concerns are the effect of changing climate on other populations around the world, as a result of which we may start seeing mass migrations the like of which would make the European refugee crisis look a bit amateur.

According to my way of thinking, you might be right. Climate change might have nothing to do with human activity. But with such high stakes, would I stake my life on it, or perhaps more accurately, my children's lives?

Answer = no.

And then I ask myself whether the solution, to decarbonise the economy, would be such a bad thing if you happen to be right and we didn't actually need to do it.

Again, answer = no. What's not to like about electric cars powered by wind/solar/nuclear? What's not to like about eating healthier, less meat intensive diets? What's not to like about less pollution? What's not to like about a less crowded planet?

[/quote]

EBH has pretty much given my response.

I was talking about this at a dinner party tonight.

To be absolutely, perfectly, honest, in my lifetime (or any children I have in the future), there will, in my opinion, be no material or environmental disaster, or crisis, or other. I may well be horribly wrong.

But what there will be is unparalleled advances in many fields, most importantly and starkly medicine. In my opinion.

So, as the Victorians did, I will not concern myself, except intellectually, with what may happen once I'm gone. I won't waste my time hand wringing about recycling, or where my energy comes from, or whether I can be "greener". Life is too short, and quite frankly my dear, I couldn't give a darn.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

bevs2251 — Fri, 10 May 2019 00:59:31 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]What's not to like about a less crowded planet?[/quote]

Well, that's the elephant in the room, isn't it. All well and good people and politicians bleating about climate change and what action to take. Human overpopulation is one of the main contributors with all the subsequent carbon pollution etc emanating from human wants and needs.

3 billion in 1960, 9 billion projected by 2030. Tripling of population in 70 years >> unsustainable. ZPG for the whole planet, not just the third world - plenty of WASP families producing 7-10 children (recent House of Horrors in USA, 13 children).

Planet would have been wiped out by 2030 due to CFCs and massive ozone layer hole, if not for your own Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan joining forces in the mid-late 80s to get CFCs banned world-wide. So need some pollies like these with intestinal fortitude to institute any world-wide change. Unlikely in this political climate.

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Julian Earl — Thu, 09 May 2019 20:41:14 GMT

What a fantastic thought-provoking thread. 10/10 everyone!

Top-notch!

Oh, I never answered the question. What am I doing? Cycling /Re-cycling, trying to support conservation bodies as much as I can. Turning off the light switches ASAP, and so on...

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Thu, 09 May 2019 20:02:57 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] the solution, to decarbonise the economy,[/quote]

But is that actually the solution?

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]What's not to like about electric cars powered by wind/solar/nuclear?[/quote]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]What's not to like about a less crowded planet?[/quote]

Hmm, how will you achieve that? Mass medication with contraceptives in the water (in the Third World, of course)? Forced mass vasectomy (in the Third World, of course)? Well, India tried that. A one-child policy? Forced abortions? (In the Third World, of course). Well, China tried those. Something more natural maybe – plague epidemics (in the Third World of course)? Or just stop relieving famines, stop improving agriculture (in the Third World of course).

RE: What are you doing to save the planet?

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 09 May 2019 19:20:05 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]There has been a rise in CO2 and there is a rise in temperatures. But whether this is due to human activity or not is far from clear". [/quote]

David Mills Not according to NASA, which says 95% probability of being caused by human activity:

https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/

Which also makes what seems to me to be a strong case against global warming (GW) being caused by variations in solar activity: https://climate.nasa.gov/causes/

The potential consequences of GW are, it seems to me, catastrophic.

I don't think the UK is the immediate concern, might even be quite desirable to spend the summer on the Hampshire Riviera.

Answer = no.

And then I ask myself whether the solution, to decarbonise the economy, would be such a bad thing if you happen to be right and we didn't actually need to do it.