VetSurgeon Ideas & Suggestions Tin

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Rob Loxley — Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:57:10 GMT

Looks cleaner, is there a good way when reading one topic in the forums to jump to the next unread post in the next discussion?

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Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 25 Jul 2019 06:27:32 GMT

Deafening silence. Anyone like ^ ?

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Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 24 Jul 2019 12:49:18 GMT

And here is the mobile phone version, which has been refreshed to make much better use of the available space (and the plan is for it to work as an app, with notifications) ...

RE: VetSurgeon Ideas & Suggestions Tin

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 22 Jul 2019 18:16:08 GMT

[quote user="Nicola M"]Is there anyway to post with paragraphs on a phone?[/quote]

Think that will be addressed in the next update. Hope so!

Meantime, here is the first draft of the new design for the homepage, the objective of which was to 'freshen it up'; make it feel a bit more contemporary, and highlight the important things better. Any feedback much appreciated.

RE: VetSurgeon Ideas & Suggestions Tin

Nicola Cole — Sun, 21 Jul 2019 13:04:19 GMT

Is there anyway to post with paragraphs on a phone? The paragraphs are there when I type then when it posts it all just morphs into one long spiel of drivel...

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Anthony Dennison — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 12:03:04 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]

Arlo, I don't know if you noticed but you have thirteen thousand unread emails. It's making my eye twitch.

[/quote]

That's nothing. At one point my wife had 45k unread. Mainly marketing and advertising emails that she just ignored.

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Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 10:58:36 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]Arlo, I don't know if you noticed but you have thirteen thousand unread emails. It's making my eye twitch.[/quote]

hahahahah

The perils of running a website - most of those will be autoresponses to emails, and spam and stuff. Still, you have reminded me, what with discussion about wasted energy storing rubbish, I need to try and get that number down.

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Lucy Fleming — Fri, 12 Jul 2019 09:21:23 GMT

Arlo, I don't know if you noticed but you have thirteen thousand unread emails. It's making my eye twitch.

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Bob Russell — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 11:19:50 GMT

I have not ever, knowingly rubbished or considered a 'corporate' colleague any less of a vet because of their employer. If so then I have been careless in my language.

I do have grave concerns where a single employer has such a dominant position and appears to be making all attempts to become even more dominant. I believe IVC at the corporate level has become a monster that has the potential to consume the profession. It may be (and probably is) a good company to work for but at the moment all employers have to look after staff or lose them. Near monopolies have always been dangerous which is why there is serious law in place to control them.

Independents will always be there. Some vets have sold out, gone away for a bit then opened up again close to the original practice and done well.

None of this is linked in any way to the quality of the employees or the standard of care offered at any IVC practice.

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Kate Richardson — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:54:24 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

There are loads of adverts for IVC Jobs on this website!

[/quote]

I think Arlo is thinking of the future, which is understandable.

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Anthony Dennison — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 10:33:55 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Wren"]When I advertised for an assistant a few months ago I used the Vet Record, Vet Times, BEVA website and a couple of equine vet FB/email groups. Are you suggesting that corporates only advertise on their on websites?[/quote]

Not at the moment, maybe, but in a world where there are only three places you need to look for a job (ie the websites belonging to the corporates), then maybe.

[/quote]

There are loads of adverts for IVC Jobs on this website!

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Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 09:03:10 GMT

Not at the moment, maybe, but in a world where there are only three places you need to look for a job (ie the websites belonging to the corporates), then maybe.

In other news ... more discussions with developers and it looks like we'll be doing this, perhaps regardless of what my forthcoming survey finds:

Notice the Vn Vs icons are exactly as you can already put on your smartphone. The difference is the red circles which alert you to new content. This will be driven by the same system as provides the current notifications at the top of your screen, but we will be reviewing them to make sure they are easier to opt in and out of, and making sure they are available for all content (we do not have notifications of new jobs at present; you have to subscribe by email or follow one of our social media pages, and we need to improve reactions notifications).

When you click the icon, it will take you through to vetsurgeon / vetnurse as before (although with design improvements to make the platform far better for mobile), where you will be able to click the notifications button to see exactly what they are.

My hope is that a good notifications system will really help drive more engagement. Most important is the need to make it easy to specify exactly what you want to be notified about (ie replies to forum posts in a specific discipline).

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Mark Hedberg — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:57:57 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I mean, if everyone works for one of 2 or 3 corporates, less need for a community like this, or for Vet Times or Vet Record for that matter.[/quote]

Why? I don't get it.

I've said this a million times, but my job and responsibilities are exactly the same since being bought by IVC (well, not quite exactly the same - I actually have bigger CPD and capital expenditure budgets, and more holiday allowance). All the clinical queries, drug debates, discussions on ethics, on employee management, on OOH work are still relevant. The Vet Record and clinical papers, news, obits and job adverts are still relevant. The Vet Times ditto. I don't know how else to say it. Corporate employees are still vets, with the same issues as independent vets.

[/quote]

I suspect Arlo's looking at this from a market size perspective - fewer companies means fewer potential advertisers for him. I don't think there's anything particularly personal in his views, except that it's easy to paint corporates as 'big brother'.

I know what you mean about the bias though...I worked for a corporate for a few years too. Fully agree there were upsides and downsides, just like every other employer.

edit: didn't refresh the page, saw afterwards that you'd answered already, Arlo :)

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Wren — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:45:23 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"] Likewise, if there are only three employers out there, less need for independent job boards, because there are only three places you need to look (whereas historically, before the internet, everyone HAD to advertise in the Vet Times). [/quote]

Fair enough if we cross posted, but you did say that there wouldn't be a need for forums, Vet Times, Vet Record etc. When I advertised for an assistant a few months ago I used the Vet Record, Vet Times, BEVA website and a couple of equine vet FB/email groups. Are you suggesting that corporates only advertise on their on websites?

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Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:42:00 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]Why? I don't get it.[/quote]

Not sure if we cross posted, but I'm not saying that the needs of a corporate vet are any different to those of an independent vet. They are not. It is just that if the corporates decide to run their own newsletters / communities, then there is less need for independent ones (and less advertising revenue to fund them). Likewise, if there are only three employers out there, less need for independent job boards, because there are only three places you need to look (whereas historically, before the internet, everyone HAD to advertise in the Vet Times).

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Wren — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:25:18 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I mean, if everyone works for one of 2 or 3 corporates, less need for a community like this, or for Vet Times or Vet Record for that matter.[/quote]

Why? I don't get it.

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Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 08:22:54 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]I don't know why you would think that.[/quote]

I suppose I picture a world where corporates have their own newsletters, in which they report 90% of the things currently reported by independent media, and possibly, yes, their own communities.

But yes, I agree with you that everyone benefits from asking a wider audience for their opinion, and that is true even amongst corporates. So things may not be a gloosmal as I sometimes worry.

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Kate Richardson — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 07:39:41 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I mean, if everyone works for one of 2 or 3 corporates, less need for a community like this, or for Vet Times or Vet Record for that matter.[/quote]

I don't know why you would think that. Everyone has a boss, but it doesn't mean one shouldn't ask a wider audience for advice on anything. This community provides a wide variety of opinions and experiences for all vets; who each individual vet is employed by doesn't matter. Unless you think corporates are going to set up their own communities and ban their employees from talking to anyone outside of the company!

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Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 11 Jul 2019 06:58:36 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]For you, personally, or for vetsurgeon.org?[/quote]

I meant me personally, but now you mention it, both. I mean, if everyone works for one of 2 or 3 corporates, less need for a community like this, or for Vet Times or Vet Record for that matter.

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Rob Loxley — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 21:08:12 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]However, for me the aim is surely to try and ensure that a healthy independent sector survives[/quote]

For you, personally, or for vetsurgeon.org?

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Kate Richardson — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 18:53:13 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]But is so NOT what all corporate owned practices are about[/quote]

I wasn't saying it was! All I mean is that it's slightly pointless wasting time moaning about what anyone else is up to; much more useful to spend time thinking how to take on the competition.

[/quote]

I agree, but those sort of comments do tend to suggest that all corporates behave that way when you follow it with 'what an independent can offer clients'. Sorry, didn't mean to target you specifically, but it was a good example.

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Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:43:01 GMT

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]But is so NOT what all corporate owned practices are about[/quote]

I wasn't saying it was! All I mean is that it's slightly pointless wasting time moaning about what anyone else is up to; much more useful to spend time thinking how to take on the competition.

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Kate Richardson — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 13:15:07 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

However, for me the aim is surely to try and ensure that a healthy independent sector survives, and I think it is far better to be discussing ways of ensuring that, than wasting time with unfounded allegations, conspiracy theories and moaning!

So (for example) rather than complaining about '2 spays for the price of 1', surely more useful and productive to think what an independent can offer clients that is going to beat the 2 for 1 proposition.

[/quote]

But is so NOT what all corporate owned practices are about- certainly as far as IVC is concerned any promotions are generally generated within each individual branch. Yes there are national promotions from time to time, but no different to Pet Dental Month or national spay your cat month where many practices, independent or corporate owned, have special offers on. Not all corporates are the same by any means, and it is unfair to tar them all with the same brush. If we are going to talk about 2 for 1 spay offers, we need to be specific about who is offering this, as to just say 'its the corporates' is unfair.

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Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 09:05:07 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]I don't come on here for the clinical input - there is next to no equine content on here and if I have specific equine questions I use an equine-specific group on FB which has some pretty well known and respected names contributing and doesn't general deviate from the serious clinical stuff.[/quote]

This is one of the reasons I have created the discipline-specific areas, such as Equine: https://www.vetsurgeon.org/veterinary-clinical/equine/

It takes time to build the content in each area (dentistry is coming along well: https://www.vetsurgeon.org/veterinary-clinical/small-animal/dentistry/), and once we have upgraded the site, there should be opportunities to provide more subject-specific content.

[quote user="Wren"]As someone who choses to post here under a pseudonym, it is for all of the reasons above.[/quote]

Interesting.

[quote user="Wren"]Yes, this! There is a lot of general and un-educated corporate-bashing on here. I'm another IVC employee and I can tell you that most of the rubbish and assumptions that are quoted on here about policy and corporate practices and the vets who work for them are just that, rubbish.[/quote]

Well, one thing that has come out of this discussion is the need for me to moderate the anti-corp stuff better.

I'm not saying one should not talk about the impact of corporatisation on the profession. It is one of the biggest and most important changes in our lifetimes.

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Wren — Wed, 10 Jul 2019 08:16:05 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]

There is also a fair bit of life in practice or anecdote sharing or practice management content. (Generally with an anti-corporate slant)

There is also some, often very good, clinical content.

Most posts are from employers rather than employees, I think?

Yet employees presumably vastly outnumber employers?

Why, as an employee, particularly a junior one, wouldn't I choose to post the many questions that come into my mind on a daily basis, such as is this normal in a clinic? does your boss do that? can you help me with this case? I don't quite get this? etc.?:

My boss might read it - whether I've asked a reasonable question or not, whether I act in line with the (differing) responses or not etc., I've aired info on their clinic's business online without asking their permission (if I asked their permission, then I may as well have asked their opinion in the first place, if I work in a corporate then perhaps I can assume that permission is denied?) - that's pretty offensive to many employers I would suspect if you have posted with identifiable details. If I was an employer, then I would expect my staff to have more discretion than posting details of clinic life or cases online (vetsurgeon, facebook, blogs, anything really) - perhaps I would be unreasonable, but then employers are human and not robots.
A future prospective employer might read it (it being an employer-rich forum): I have no idea how this may reflect on me at a later date, but generally-speaking being totally anonymous on applying for a job is a good thing for the applicant?
If it's full of employers, then it's not for the cool kids: would you have shared a forum with your teachers at school?

[/quote]

As someone who choses to post here under a pseudonym, it is for all of the reasons above. I am not the boss, but I run an equine branch of a larger practice, so I am slightly higher up the ladder than a lot of employees and have quite a lot of management responsibility. I don't come on here for the clinical input - there is next to no equine content on here and if I have specific equine questions I use an equine-specific group on FB which has some pretty well known and respected names contributing and doesn't general deviate from the serious clinical stuff. I do enjoy the practice management and general discussions though, and often will have a look at small animal clinical stuff just out of interest. However I am a fairly shy person and would not post half of what I do if I was doing it under my real name, and mostly for the reasons Beats gives above.

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I suppose my first thought, and something that I don't think had hit me before you post, which is that social media / forums self-select for people who are comfortable in their boots, so to speak. For example, as you point out, employers may be more inclined to post an opinion or ask for advice than employees (and I think you are right about there being a leaning towards employers in the forums. Specialists and experts may be more inclined to share an opinion than a new grad.[/quote]

With regards to FB vs forums (I haven't really picked the right quote here, but it's a long thread and I couldn't find quite the bit I wanted!), Iread a lot on FB but don't post much, because I appear under my real name. On here I am more likely to chuck a comment in as I have a pseudonym.

[quote user="Kate Richardson"]Have you considered that the anti-corporate vibe that tends to permeate out throughout the forum is a factor? As a lot of vets are employed by clinics owned by corporates, so there may be a feeling of us versus them? [/quote]

Yes, this! There is a lot of general and un-educated corporate-bashing on here. I'm another IVC employee and I can tell you that most of the rubbish and assumptions that are quoted on here about policy and corporate practices and the vets who work for them are just that, rubbish. It can be quite insulting to be talked about as some sort of a lesser vet, or someone who has sold out, just because you're a corporate employee. A lot of us had no choice or say in the matter. My job has not changed since the takeover - it's still the same job I did before - so there's no reason for me to leave it. But I do feel a lot of people, both here and on FB, have a 'smug independent' attitude, which really does grate. As if we're somehow less vets than them.