Breast feeding

RE: Breast feeding

Chris Geddes — Thu, 02 May 2019 13:43:45 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

You outrageous bigoted dinosaur.

[/quote]

They were interviewing a midwife on the radio this morning. She mentioned all the "women" she had helped give birth in her career. I was aghast at that. How can she presume the gender of her pregnant patients?

RE: Breast feeding

Claire Godfrey — Thu, 02 May 2019 13:27:07 GMT

I may be wrong but in my experience the tongue tie is much more common than people realises.

Apparantly it used to be cut in hospital as routine but now it isn't.

My first son had a tongue tie but it was mild and actually I found breast feeding relatively easy.

Fast forward 3 years, second son also a tongue tie, feeding him excruciatingly painful, kept having midwives tell me the latch was wrong etc etc. even though they knew there was a tongue tie. Eventually at 6 weeks we had it cut, 2 hour drive, 15mins in hospital 2 hours home. And instant relief. Those first 6 weeks were incredibly hard, and I would definitely have given up if it wasn't for the fact I had fed my first and knew it shouldn't be like that. I really feel it affected my initial relationship with him, he fed every 20minutes, but fell asleep feeding because he had to try so hard to get milk. Then he woke up starving, but I was really becoming aversive to feeding him due to pain.

That same year my sister had a son who had a tongue tie. She is very mother earth and definitely wanted to breast feed. She started expressing and feeding him this way because the pain of latching on was too much. The doctors refused to refer he to hve the tongue tie cut unless she was breast feeding. They did eventually get it cut but too late for her to continue feeding.

My sister in law also a little boy, same year.... Tongue tie which was only picked up at 6 week check, after she had given up feeding because too painful.

A friend, little boy, kept being referred as not gaining weight, combination fed but refluxing a lot after bottle milk, painful breast feeding but perservered. Finally after numerous paediatrician/midwife/nutritionaliist appointments she saw a physiotherapist because they were worried he wasn't moving properly. The first thing they said after exam was, he has a tongue tie, this has affected his neck because he is putting so much effort into feeding. It took another 6 weeks to get it cut but has been much better since.

I appreciate these are all anecdotal but feel so strongly that this is being missed a lot. It is my number one piece of advice to check there is no tongue tie.

A tongue tie does not affect bottle fed babies feeding, so what is the incidence really. How many are being missed?

Anthony, if you are still Preston way, there is a charity called Little Angels which support breast feeding and are lovely.

RE: Breast feeding

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 01 May 2019 18:42:41 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"] does tend to win in the end (for both genders).[/quote]

You outrageous bigoted dinosaur. You must be sacked immediately from any governmental or quango posts you may hold. "Both genders" ???!!!! You are implying that there are only two!!!??? There's no free speech for sexist racist elitist speciesist vicious fascist scum like you!

RE: Breast feeding

bob lehner — Wed, 01 May 2019 17:20:00 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="roland bulkyn-rackowe"] It turned out that her anatomy had changed somewhat over the years[/quote]

You keep telling me it's not the same as cows, then keep giving examples where it really is

[/quote]

No offence to the older ladies on the forum - but gravity does tend to win in the end (for both genders).

RE: Breast feeding

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 01 May 2019 16:59:46 GMT

Think I'd be reaching for an emasculator....

RE: Breast feeding

Julie Innes — Wed, 01 May 2019 16:36:04 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]I would humbly suggest that if/ when the time comes for you and Mrs Woodhouse, you don't make the same comparison. Or if you do, make it from a safe distance. Perhaps Australia? [/quote]

I'm sure Michael's wife won't mind. I'm assuming he will get a nice big ring through his nose at the same time....

RE: Breast feeding

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 01 May 2019 16:27:28 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]

[quote user="roland bulkyn-rackowe"] It turned out that her anatomy had changed somewhat over the years[/quote]

You keep telling me it's not the same as cows, then keep giving examples where it really is

[/quote]

I would humbly suggest that if/ when the time comes for you and Mrs Woodhouse, you don't make the same comparison. Or if you do, make it from a safe distance. Perhaps Australia?

RE: Breast feeding

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 01 May 2019 15:02:31 GMT

[quote user="roland bulkyn-rackowe"] It turned out that her anatomy had changed somewhat over the years[/quote]

You keep telling me it's not the same as cows, then keep giving examples where it really is

RE: Breast feeding

Roland Bulkyn-Rackowe — Wed, 01 May 2019 09:51:22 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]

The NHS ante-natal classes do mention this - a newborn's stomach is the size of a cherry so only needs 5ml per time to start with. They did put a lot of emphasis on breastfeeding and hardly mentioned bottles. We paid for a hypnobirth course which was really good as all the options were discussed (and really wasn't hippy at all - I found it really interesting).

The safe sleeping talk was an eye-opener. Mainly because the person doing it just kept giving statistics on how many babies had died because of certain causes in the last 12 months

[/quote]

Hi Anthony, congratulations on your imminent arrival! My wife has breastfed our three children, not all of them exclusively. With our third she had the most problems and the midwife was not great at helping unfortunately. This was really getting her down but she was too embarassed to ask for help elsewhere. There was a local mother run breastfeeding group at the childrens centre with a breastfeeding guru in attendance that we attended - she would only go if I went too - and that morning transformed her experience and technique. It turned out that her anatomy had changed somewhat over the years and baby had a tongue tie that wasn't helping. The whole experience from then on was so much more positive and less painful.

RE: Breast feeding

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 19:20:12 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]This thread is even more boring than the ones on cycling [/quote]

At least he reads it or he wouldn't know it was boring.

RE: Breast feeding

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 18:31:15 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"], you only have to take your boobs with you[/quote]

But can you take them through airport security when they are full - or do you have to empty and then re-fill later on the other side?

(p.s.This thread is even more boring than the ones on cycling - I'm surprised people haven't started on about feeding the sprog whilst pedalling madly).

[/quote] ah but I don’t even read the cycling one whereas you have read this one.

RE: Breast feeding

Julie Innes — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:24:55 GMT

I was often grateful for the convenience of breast feeding! Most memorable occasion was when we took 2 week old baby to visit her granny, and her big sister decided to help herself to granny's pills while we were pre-occupied with baby- a horrible 45 minute dash to hospital then she had to be kept in for observation for 8 hours (she was fine!). Thank God I was breastfeeding the baby, or we would have had a job sterilising bottles etc for the whole day!

RE: Breast feeding

bob lehner — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 16:02:53 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"], you only have to take your boobs with you[/quote]

But can you take them through airport security when they are full - or do you have to empty and then re-fill later on the other side?

(p.s.This thread is even more boring than the ones on cycling - I'm surprised people haven't started on about feeding the sprog whilst pedalling madly).

RE: Breast feeding

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 14:52:33 GMT

Another positive of breast feeding is if you go away on holiday , you only have to take your boobs with you not bottles and sterilising stuff and worrying about the water quality. I took my twelve week old son to meet his South African relatives and it was so convenient. Sorry to trivialise it but its the small things that make the difference.

RE: Breast feeding

Will McMullan — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:41:55 GMT

My wife is currently breastfeeding our second daughter. Both times I have found every point of contact we have had to be very positive and encouraging towards breastfeeding. The NCT classes certainly didn't mention bottles much if at all, the midwives were very keen to show my wife how to breastfeed and helped with issues in the first few days, and repeatedly told us about support that was available once we had left hospital, local breastfeeding groups. The health visitors that came to the house also checked that it was going well. Perhaps this isn't replicated across the UK but I was very impressed with the advice and support. It didn't feel pushy either, just that it is the ideal situation and everyone wants to make it work for mum and baby.

RE: Breast feeding

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:34:38 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]The NHS ante-natal classes do mention this - a newborn's stomach is the size of a cherry so only needs 5ml per time to start with. [/quote]

Brill.

I found when I was pregnant that there was a lot of very good practical advice about breastfeeding and 'the normals', but not a lot about all the things that are difficult about it. I'm the type of person who needs to know .... I like to be prepared! I think preparing mum for the fact that it may not be easy, but most of the problems will pass, is important.

RE: Breast feeding

Chris Geddes — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 10:31:06 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]we'll go down the pub and when it shuts we'll rent a porn vid.[/quote]

All online now Evelyn, so I'm told.

RE: Breast feeding

Anthony Dennison — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 09:32:00 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]New born babies do not need much. However, mum HAS to continue to allow frequent feeding in order to stimulate milk production. [/quote]

The safe sleeping talk was an eye-opener. Mainly because the person doing it just kept giving statistics on how many babies had died because of certain causes in the last 12 months

RE: Breast feeding

Virginia Campbell — Tue, 30 Apr 2019 00:16:27 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]Just because adding rice water, teas etc is traditional in various countries doesn't automatically make it "good", any more than the fashion 30 or 40 years ago for stuffing rusks into young babies in this country was good. [/quote]

Doesn't make it "bad" either. Did anyone assert that it was "good"? What it does do though is cut that mother out of the statistics.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]And as it is generally accepted that EBF brings the maximum benefit to baby and reduces infant mortality in developing countries, it is a sensible goal, no?[/quote]

A sensible goal, probably.

But as you say, [quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]it is difficult to quantify partial breastfeeding for the statistics.[/quote]

So the truth is that nobody knows how many women breastfeed?

VSou4 here came up with some Unicef figures for different countries for women who start breastfeeding. Although I feel some of them were dubious, to say the least, I did think it strange that in many poor countries the figure was low. Maybe they don't actually collect data from rural traditional families; maybe they don't collect data from the urban destitute (who tend to be a bit wary of bossy officials); maybe somebody did a survey of 20 random women once? But if we are to start perceiving problems and "tackling" them, maybe the beginning is the place to start. Why would a poor woman in a poor traditional family not breastfeed at all?

[/quote]

Some of the studies I added above compared exclusive breastfeeding with predominant, partial and no breastfeeding. Sorry I couldn't make them clickable but if you copy and paste them into the search bar they might work.

Re opinion vs preaching- I was just a bit nettled that you seemed to be criticising us for discussing our own experiences and suggesting we discuss worthier subjects. I am sorry if this was not your intention. I think all aspects of this are interesting. I was a bit sad to see that Northern Ireland is pretty much the worst in the world as far as breastfeeding rates are concerned. At least we have clean water so the children aren't, on the whole, going to die as infants because of it...but still.

What goes into the bottle here instead of milk matters too. Last week met up with my mother-and-baby group mums from 3 years ago. One of them is a dentist. I had listened to an interesting radio 4 programme about fluoride a couple of weeks back. One of the contributors was discussing how common it is to see dental decay in young children necessitating full mouth extractions under GA so I asked my dentist friend about it. She says yes- she sees at least one of these per fortnight, in children as young as 3 years old. I was pretty shocked.

RE: Breast feeding

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:41:56 GMT

[quote user="Virginia Campbell"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Oh, sorry, I forgot, I'm male, I'm not allowed to have any interest or opinions in the matter[/quote]

Oh for goodness sake don't take the huff just because I told you to wind your neck in when you started preaching about what the most important subject of conversation is.

[/quote]

Oh the delicious irony.

She has an opinion, he preaches.

RE: Breast feeding

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:37:43 GMT

Doesn't make it "bad" either. Did anyone assert that it was "good"? What it does do though is cut that mother out of the statistics.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]And as it is generally accepted that EBF brings the maximum benefit to baby and reduces infant mortality in developing countries, it is a sensible goal, no?[/quote]

A sensible goal, probably.

But as you say, [quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]it is difficult to quantify partial breastfeeding for the statistics.[/quote]

So the truth is that nobody knows how many women breastfeed?

RE: Breast feeding

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:34:02 GMT

Closer to home- the UK has low rates of breastfeeding at 6mo compared with the rest of the world, and the lowest in the world at 12mo

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-35438049

Northern Ireland has the lowest rate in the UK

https://www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/about/breastfeeding-in-the-uk/

Socioeconomic factors

www.maternal-and-early-years.org.uk/deprivation-and-rate-of-breastfeeding

RE: Breast feeding

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:14:42 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Oh, sorry, I forgot, I'm male, I'm not allowed to have any interest or opinions in the matter[/quote]

Oh for goodness sake don't take the huff just because I told you to wind your neck in when you started preaching about what the most important subject of conversation is.

RE: Breast feeding

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 23:02:36 GMT

Urgh no clicky links

Anyway, if you google for a bit using search terms such as EBF PBF PRBF mixed along with infant morbidity and mortality you should should come up with an overview as to why the WHO recommends exclusive breastfeeding up until 6mo rather than saying mixed or even predominantly breastfeeding for 4mo or whatever. It seems that gastroenteritis is the biggest killer of infants and EBF for 6mo has the greatest effect in reducing infant mortality. Just because adding rice water, teas etc is traditional in various countries doesn't automatically make it "good", any more than the fashion 30 or 40 years ago for stuffing rusks into young babies in this country was good. There are various studies showing the effects of interventions on rates of EBF eg type and timing of healthcare professional advice in various different countries, and even legislation in Indonesia! Some of the studies show the cost effectiveness of interventions too.

Yes, breastfeeding advice- like anything- changes with new literature being added to the evidence base but that doesn't necessarily mean that he current "EBF to 6mo" advice was just pulled out of the air as the latest fad.

RE: Breast feeding

Virginia Campbell — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 22:47:06 GMT

Why it's a global issue:

https://www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/lancet-increasing-breastfeeding-worldwide-prevent-800000-child-deaths-every-year/

exclusive vs partial vs no breastfeeding

https://www.ennonline.net/attachments/414/bob1-effect-of-bf-on-morbidity.pdf

EBF vs PBF vs mixed:

https://jhu.pure.elsevier.com/en/publications/effect-of-early-exclusive-breastfeeding-on-morbidity-among-infant-6

Why not EBF longer than 6mo?

https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/136/2/452/4743762