Need your help with brainstorming

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 29 Apr 2019 08:34:45 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]However facebook manages that trick and you can use non names on Vetsurgeon, so why not here?[/quote]

I wonder the same thing. I suspect the difference is just that so many people currently use facebook anyway, for other things, which means both that a) they are there anyway, and b) it sort of feels less daunting, maybe, to post somewhere you just shared a picture of your child with your family than it does somewhere everyone is more focused on reading what you have to say in a professional context.

I think it is quite possible that facebook will become less popular in the future, for one of many reasons (privacy issues being one). I also think there are various things I can do to make the experience less daunting and more engaging.

First step is to upgrade the platform, which I think we are about half way through now, and then I'll do some more research and then put the options to a vote ...

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Neil Wheadon — Sat, 27 Apr 2019 16:10:24 GMT

I feel a pertinent question is

'Why don't you post'

I put something up as often as I feel fit, but wish more people did. If everyone here posted a clinical query once a year, we'd have a pretty vibrant forum.

For me, I'm not afraid of looking daft in asking anything, it hasn't affected my employment (I hope) and bear in mind I'm a locum, so not safe in a permanent job. However I will acknowledge that replying to a question takes more courage as then you are more judged. However facebook manages that trick and you can use non names on Vetsurgeon, so why not here?

Neil

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Cinzia Gandini — Fri, 26 Apr 2019 13:58:52 GMT

I have voted for 'A more challenging environment than on Facebook, which tends to be more of an echo chamber', I would like to add I value privacy a lot especially nowadays and I think Facebook is not suitable for such a newsgroup. I also think an app could not protect our privacy well especially if you need to grant a lot of permissions like contact list, read email, collect data. I am very against unregulated environments.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Arlo Guthrie — Thu, 18 Apr 2019 08:43:56 GMT

[quote user="Shams Mir"]Arlo, I think you may get some very valuable feedback if you were also to approach those of the 13720 members who visit VS infrequently[/quote]

Hi Shams Mir

I think that is a perhaps overly pessimistic assessment, that all 13720 members visit infrequently!

That aside, yes, I totally agree with your point about asking those who do not contribute towards discussions.

I used to think it was because we had a reputation for being a sometimes pretty challenging (aka hostile) environment which you needed to be quite brave to enter.

I think that situation has improved dramatically, but perhaps it takes longer to shake the reputation.

There's no doubt also that Dinu Catilina's point about the ease and familiarity of fb (ie people are there engaging with family etc) is a major factor.

Maybe I am deluded, but I still believe that VS, even in its current iteration, is a better, more professional and appropriate environment for clinical discussions. But I DO need to further improve the ease of use (things like notifications and improving mobile phone friendliness).

But you are right, and as I said earlier, once we are on the new platform, I will be putting future development decisions (esp. about things which make the site more attractive and easy to use) to a vote of members.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Shams Mir — Thu, 18 Apr 2019 00:47:45 GMT

Arlo, I think you may get some very valuable feedback if you were also to approach those of the 13720 members who visit VS infrequently or do not contribute to discussions to check as to why that is the case. It will perhaps need reaching out to them through an email with a simple poll asking them as to what they think and what would they like to see change on the website, especially on the forums, to make it attractive and easy for them to use. There is no doubt this is a truly professional forum that deserves a bigger and more participative audience. Best wishes. Shams

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 15:12:29 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]I can usually find the answer faster on my phone than using a book, even though we have quite a comprehensive library and I do love a good book.[/quote]

But if you had already studied the book you might not be needing to search for an answer...........

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 14:16:59 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]For surgery I still find a textbook much more helpful than any other resource[/quote]

Youtube videos can be invaluable. Seeing it in the flesh so to speak.

I can usually find the answer faster on my phone than using a book, even though we have quite a comprehensive library and I do love a good book.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:51:16 GMT

[quote user="Jill Butterworth"]Big bonfire, I suppose... [/quote]

Aaaaaargh.... the very thought of burning books hurts . Why not just keep them? They make good doorstops or speaker stands if all else fails. But if you have to get rid of them, and they really are so out of date as to be misleading (unlikely if they are just the last edition but one); and not old enough to be of historic interest; put them in the paper recycling.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Jill Butterworth — Wed, 17 Apr 2019 11:42:01 GMT

This thread is starting to sound like 'A Modern Post War History of Veterinary Medicine and Surgery'.

On the subject of old medicine and surgery books, what is a useful thing to do with them, as I don't want someone being misled by out of date stuff, it seems counter intuitive to give them away? Big bonfire, I suppose...

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 15 Apr 2019 08:25:25 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Ormrod gives crystal clear instruction for replacement of the anterior cruciate (as we called it then) ligament, and nowhere suggerts amputation under local analgesia. Some of his strictures are completely applicable today: such as "the object of surgery is presumably to make the patient better, not to demonstrate the skill of the surgeon".[/quote]

Dear oh dear, it was "Canine Surgery" that suggests the local and the fluid therapy, not Ormrod..

But no matter, now vets can get today's up-to-date stuff and links to the actual txt and all the bits that they never mention in textbooks!!

Wish I'd had it when I was winging it!

[/quote]

For surgery I still find a textbook much more helpful than any other resource. For example I did my first lateral wall resections and vertical canal ablations on cats' ears having never seen one, but having carefully read through Fossum several times and having it open during the surgery (and yes, the clients were aware that I hadn't done the surgery before).

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 19:06:01 GMT

Nonetheless, Textbooks Are Good and I wouldn't think much of a practice that didn't have a comprehensive library on everything relevant to their field of practice.

True, back in 1972 you'd be lucky if there was a library, especially if it consisted of more than a few of the senior partner's old student books, the BSAVA Manual of Exotic Pets (the 1970 ring-binder edition) and a paperback called Homeopathy for All.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Anthony Todd — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 18:04:02 GMT

Dear oh dear, it was "Canine Surgery" that suggests the local and the fluid therapy, not Ormrod..

But no matter, now vets can get today's up-to-date stuff and links to the actual txt and all the bits that they never mention in textbooks!!

Wish I'd had it when I was winging it!

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:51:49 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Noel Ormrod[/quote]

Er, I didn't want to mention the name.......but it was around 1968!!

[/quote]

Well, Ormrod was published in 1966. I paid £3 for my copy. So I don't think you have any excuse for using Hamilton Kirk.

Ormrod gives crystal clear instruction for replacement of the anterior cruciate (as we called it then) ligament, and nowhere suggests amputation under local analgesia. Some of his strictures are completely applicable today: such as "the object of surgery is presumably to make the patient better, not to demonstrate the skill of the surgeon".

Oh, and Leslie Hall's "Fluid Balance in Canine Surgery" was published in 1967 (the year I entered Bristol veterinary school) and cost 35 shillings.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Anthony Todd — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 16:03:22 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Noel Ormrod[/quote]

Er, I didn't want to mention the name.......but it was around 1968!!

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 14:43:40 GMT

Quite so, Anthony, but further textbooks come out as knowledge advances. I'm not sure when you qualified, but I rather think that Hamilton Kirk had long been superseded by Noel Ormrod.

If I had an assistant who persistently pulled out a phone to go on Facebook, without first consulting the extensive collection of textbooks available here, I'd sack 'em.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Anthony Todd — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 14:18:26 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]We had textbooks, Anthony, (just as we have now) and we were prepared to read them.[/quote]

We did indeed, but I think surgery has advanced slightly since my Canine Surgery advised amputating a dog's forelimb under local, if the dog was toxic.......

And a very good surgeon did his first cruciate while following the current text book and decided, half way through, that the instructions didn't make any sense at all! Which they didn't, the author admitted when contacted..........

And I seem to remember best, or only, "fluid therapy" was 20ml per Kg under the skin slowly!!

Today anything remotely as important as these errors would have been all over this site and corrected in days.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 13:15:12 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

Remember case of the week/month? There are so many cases that are brought to a conclusion all over the place. By presenting one in stages on the forum we could view it at the start, comment on it and then the answer revealed. There are good examples here, a recent cat radiograph for example.

You'd increase the clinical traffic as well

[/quote]

Indeed.

I'd like to see people posting stuff just for interest, rather than seeking help or asking a question, more often.

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Most of you haven't been without ANY source of advice or knowledge apart from journals, at intervals, or ringing someone.[/quote]

We had textbooks, Anthony, (just as we have now) and we were prepared to read them.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Anthony Todd — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 12:12:57 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]Right now we are putting the website on the latest software platform.[/quote]

Oh dear, will it work with Windows 7 ???

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 12:06:41 GMT

Must say, finding this such an interesting discussion, and one of the things I have decided is that from now on, I'm going to make development of the website much more community-led.

In other words, since I've launched the website, I've made all the decisions about what new features to develop largely by myself. Frankly, there have been a few turkeys!

From now on, I'm going to take all development decisions with input from all of you.

As we start each round of development, I'll first invite suggestions as to what you would like to see added or improved. Then we'll have a vote.

Right now we are putting the website on the latest software platform. As that is nearing completion, I will start putting things to the floor.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Harriet Nicholson — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 11:04:06 GMT

I suspect I'm in the 'younger' vet category (I will be 8 years qualified this summer) - I do often read through the threads and learn but never claim CPD as I have so much other I dont 'need' to claim any extra.

I use facebook sites and this forum and find the facebook threads so hard to scroll through on a mobile. This has more community feel, but equally some of the VSGD chats are extremely caring and supportive. So I use both, but think facebook is slowly beocming more community based than personal friendship based anyway...

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Rob Davis — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 09:13:19 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I wonder, if I rebranded it as 'save content' (and when you press the button, it still allowed you to record as CPD!), whether that would be more compelling. Because that is its other useful function ... to create a list of the forum threads you have found useful or interesting.[/quote]

I didn't realise the "Claim CPD" button would save the content. I haven't ever used it as I do more than enough other CPD to bother claiming a few minutes on vetsurgeon here and there, but saving discussions I might like to refer back to would be useful. I will try it....

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 09:11:25 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Make it optional! Christ I remember when I joined and you used to fill my inbox with thread replies. It was 'on' by default[/quote]

An app is by definition optional!

And funny how you mention the thread reply thing, because I was thinking recently how switching it off has put me at a disadvantage to the dreaded fleecebook. I fleetingly toyed with the idea of setting the default back to 'on' (though I wouldn't have done that without making it MUCH more obvious).

But no, it is too crude a method.

Thinking that instead, maybe I should get the developers to make a better subscription system which, for example, sends you an email once a week with a list of forum discussions which you have had replies to, but only if a) there have been replies, and b) you have not visited the site.

The idea being that regular visitors would be unlikely to get the email, whereas less regular visitors would get a reasonable level of gentle nudges when there is something new.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Arlo Guthrie — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 09:04:53 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I really like the forums, and although I don't really use the "claim CPD" function I learn a lot![/quote]

Must say I am so divided over the claim cpd button. Nobody has rated it the most important thing, but that doesn't mean much - could be the third most important thing and still be important. And one person has said they think it is a poor form of learning, whereas another said they love it!

I thought that by adding it to the title bar that moves down the page with you, it would remind more people to use it. I haven't actually looked at the data to see if that is the case, but your reply suggests not!

I wonder, if I rebranded it as 'save content' (and when you press the button, it still allowed you to record as CPD!), whether that would be more compelling. Because that is its other useful function ... to create a list of the forum threads you have found useful or interesting.

[quote user="Julie Innes"]Arlo, I'm doing my bit- I have directed all my final year students to the website![/quote]

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU

Question is, you led the horses to water, did they drink? (ie did you see any of your final year students come and join the discussions later). If not, then do you have any ideas as to how we might encourage them.

I don't know about anyone else here, but I think it would be great to have some input from final year students. I would love to hear about their hopes and worries for their future careers. And i am sure most of the old dogs in this forum would be happy to give the benefit of their clinical experience.

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 08:59:03 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]So for vetsurgeon, the main benefit of an app is notifications, and I am thinking of a simple app which does just that - notify you of any responses to your discussion threads on vetsurgeon.[/quote]

Make it optional! Christ I remember when I joined and you used to fill my inbox with thread replies. It was 'on' by default

RE: Need your help with brainstorming

Julie Innes — Wed, 10 Apr 2019 08:52:19 GMT

I really like the forums, and although I don't really use the "claim CPD" function I learn a lot!

Arlo, I'm doing my bit- I have directed all my final year students to the website!