Has the CVS bubble burst?

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 14:49:43 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]Erm.......Who cares?[/quote]

At the very least, the few thousand people his company employ.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Rob Loxley — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 09:51:46 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I think there is a danger that Simon Innes' perfectly valid point is going to get drowned in a sea of outrage over a perhaps unfortunate choice of words[/quote]

Unfortunately there's a good sport going in 'corporate bashing' that many seem keen to embrace; or as my niece would put it 'haters gonna hate'?!
The Gerard Ratner comment is valid; he found out that as the boss your choice of words in public WILL be scrutinised and lept upon.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

George Cooper — Sat, 13 Apr 2019 01:30:32 GMT

Erm.......Who cares?

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 19:14:50 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]A stupid comment from someone who should be more professional and know better. A mini Gerald Ratner moment.[/quote]

I think a bit harsh, I really didn't think his comments, heard in context, were at all ratnerish.

[quote user="Bob Russell"](a) There is a clear suggestion that Mr Innis has implied that he did not make the comment[/quote]

I don't read it that way. I see a clear suggestion that he didn't mean it that way. Which is fair enough.

[quote user="Bob Russell"](b) There is the suggestion that the Veterinary Record has slammed the door on a chance to respond.[/quote]

Well, the VR says he was invited to write an article after he had been shafted. You could understand why he might stick two fingers in the air by that stage.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Bob Russell — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:34:07 GMT

A stupid comment from someone who should be more professional and know better. A mini Gerald Ratner moment.

(a) There is a clear suggestion that Mr Innis has implied that he did not make the comment

(b) There is the suggestion that the Veterinary Record has slammed the door on a chance to respond.

Each of these is arguably worse/slimier than the original comment!

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 17:26:03 GMT

Coming to Mr Innes' defence, because I think he has been treated very unfairly here ...

https://www.vetsurgeon.org/news/b/veterinary-news/archive/2019/04/12/vet-record-in-war-of-words-with-cvs-chief-over-vet-nurses.aspx

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Anthony Todd — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 16:37:53 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]I think what he meant was that the profession could give some of the tasks that VETS find mundane to nurses.[/quote]

Because nurses are cheaper than vets so use them not expensive vets...

And one vet could/should/can/will fly round 5 quiet surgeries and do the few actual ops or consults?

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 16:13:42 GMT

Oh dear, I am turbo posting. But have listened to the recording and read what VR has to say, and I think this is a storm in a teacup. More to the point, I think there is a danger that Simon Innes' perfectly valid point is going to get drowned in a sea of outrage over a perhaps unfortunate choice of words.

I think what he meant was that the profession could give some of the tasks that VETS find mundane to nurses.

I don't think he meant 'give the shit jobs to nurses' which is the way the Vet Record has interpreted it.

I think Simon Innes has a very good point. I am sensitive to the fact that many of you say you enjoy the mundane aspects yourself and don't want to delegate them to nurses. That's a perfectly reasonable argument. I just think it would be a shame if his choice of words stopped a debate about the underlying point.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Arlo Guthrie — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:57:17 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]As a result the editor of the Veterinary Record has decided to publish the recording of the comments!![/quote]

Yes, I saw that, and thought it was quite punchy of Adele Waters!

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Bob Russell — Fri, 12 Apr 2019 15:40:26 GMT

Apparently Mr Innis has tried to distance himself from the comments that nurses should be allowed to do more of the 'mundane' jobs. He appears to be implying that he did not make the comment.

As a result the editor of the Veterinary Record has decided to publish the recording of the comments!!

http://bit.ly/2FQFPwA

Mr Innis has declined so far to write an article clarifying his position!

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Bob Russell — Fri, 15 Mar 2019 13:42:44 GMT

CVS must be at least a little rattled by the response within the profession to the ill thought out codswallop spouted by Mr (non vet) Innes.

Brian Pound has been wheeled out to give a little balance to (and damage limitation to) the damage a few ill thought out idiotic comments from the present CEO!

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Anthony Todd — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 10:08:53 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]bonding them to the practice and building trust [/quote]

And if you don't come across well on this first "mundane" meeting then you've lost them forever!

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Richard Carter — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 09:40:17 GMT

yes - you must have time to play with the puppies and kittens

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Niall Taylor — Wed, 13 Mar 2019 08:15:53 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]It's a state of mind, it's deciding that I am going to find that satisfaction or enjoyment in whatever I am doing...[/quote]

Perfect - this crystallises much of the problem with the veterinary and veterinary nursing professions today.

Niall

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Thomas Johnson — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 18:59:20 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]

Can anyone define Mundane?

For some vaccinations are mundane (I enjoy them , aside the Kennel Cough part )

For others removing an eye may be mundane

Where do you draw the line?

[/quote]

I find very little I do mundane, there is a reasonable amount that I do that is straightforward, but it is all important for the health of the patient and I can take satisfaction from that, whether it is a vaccination of a healthy animal, scaling and polishing teeth, even emptying anal glands or clipping claws. It's also an interaction with a client, bonding them to the practice and building trust for when something more serious happens in the future. It's a state of mind, it's deciding that I am going to find that satisfaction or enjoyment in whatever I am doing (or try to anyway, I'm not perfect!).

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Arlo Guthrie — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 18:05:02 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]This is a small industry with power held within the hands of a few. As the mergers and acquisitions continue it becomes increasingly difficult to hold the big players to account and they become more remote from the coal face. The anon user can poke them in the eye without fear for their future and if that offends anyone then so be it. [/quote]

You have a point if you are an employee of Mr Innes (and therefore have cause to fear for your future). Otherwise, I still think you should post using your real name.

Especially since this is not even that controversial or offensive. It is just a perfectly valid viewpoint:

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Simon Innes thinks that lots of his vets engage in mundane activities (insult 1), and this should be offloaded to the nurses (insult 2), remarkably he has managed to be rude to both groups of his major fee earners in one sentence. [/quote]

But I have obscured your last remark as it was a bit rude, so it is not appropriate for the anon account.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 17:49:13 GMT

Can anyone define Mundane?

For some vaccinations are mundane (I enjoy them , aside the Kennel Cough part )

For others removing an eye may be mundane

Where do you draw the line?

Neil

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

An On MRCVS — Tue, 12 Mar 2019 16:31:30 GMT

This is a small industry with power held within the hands of a few. As the mergers and acquisitions continue it becomes increasingly difficult to hold the big players to account and they become more remote from the coal face. The anon user can poke them in the eye without fear for their future and if that offends anyone then so be it.

Simon Innes thinks that lots of his vets engage in mundane activities (insult 1), and this should be offloaded to the nurses (insult 2), remarkably he has managed to be rude to both groups of his major fee earners in one sentence.

Calling him a Ill informed crass buffoon is on the polite side.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Julie Innes — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 12:29:58 GMT

And, just for the record, neither are related to me!!

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Thomas Johnson — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 12:24:42 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Correct me if I am wrong but is this Mr Innis a vet? I understood he was with Vision Express [/quote]

There are two of them (though not related as far as I know). Simon Innes is the CEO of CVS and was quoted in the Veterinary Record article, and he used to be at Vision Express. Professor John Innes FRVCS is the Referral Director at CVS.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Bob Russell — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 12:23:39 GMT

This is an attack on someone that has attacked the pharmaceutical industry (yawn), greedy practice owners (envious yawn?). locum vets and now insulted veterinary nurses.

I am happy to use my name to comment on this twit personally but an employee of his company does not have this freedom.

That said there has been a reasonable tolerance of some of his/her previous comments.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 11:57:19 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Can the poster use a nom de plume without difficulty?[/quote]

People can set their accounts to use a nom de plume, the problem is that if they have previously used their real name, or want to use their real name in the future (and therefore change their account to display their real name in the future), they will likely be revealed as the author of the post.

I agree, it is important. But equally, it is not fair to allow people to attack others anonymously online. The latter trumps the former.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Bob Russell — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 11:49:05 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]

[quote user="Beats"]

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Anon comment deleted by editor. [/quote]

I think this might be a bit too akin to a personal attack on an individual to be allowed in an Anon post?

I just think doesn't say anything new, and the nature of a multi-use anon account means that competitors (not suggesting this was one) could post such negative comments freely seems a little unfair.

[declaration of non-interest: I have no connection to CVS at all, and seriously doubt i would enjoy working for them or their competitors][/quote]

Beats you are absolutely right. Anon account is not allowed to be used for a rant at another person or organisation for precisely the reason you've said. I have deleted the post.

[/quote]

I agree that the Anon account should not be used for rants but this is a really important topic. Can the poster use a nom de plume without difficulty?

I can see how detrimental identification could be assuming anon is a present employee. I dare say Mr Innes is capable of setting up his own account here to spout his complaints.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 11:26:15 GMT

[quote user="Beats"]

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Anon comment deleted by editor. [/quote]

I think this might be a bit too akin to a personal attack on an individual to be allowed in an Anon post?

I just think doesn't say anything new, and the nature of a multi-use anon account means that competitors (not suggesting this was one) could post such negative comments freely seems a little unfair.

[declaration of non-interest: I have no connection to CVS at all, and seriously doubt i would enjoy working for them or their competitors][/quote]

Beats you are absolutely right. Anon account is not allowed to be used for a rant at another person or organisation for precisely the reason you've said. I have deleted the post.

RE: Has the CVS bubble burst?

Bob Russell — Mon, 11 Mar 2019 11:10:50 GMT

Correct me if I am wrong but is this Mr Innis a vet? I understood he was with Vision Express

If not then he does not get the professional courtesy I would hope one colleague would offer another.

He is a businessman , running a business and placing himself in the firing line by offering his opinions to all and sundry publications. As such he is fair game.

Even as a vet he should expect a robust reaction to his views. If you are blaming everyone else for your woes it is probably you at fault not them!

Other companies may have deeper pockets at the moment but their bubbles will burst in time.