The trade in ' Street Dogs'

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Richard Carter — Mon, 14 Jan 2019 11:02:01 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]growling at other dog (time may have healed that) but they took him out for a walk and he was lunging at all other dogs trying to attack them[/quote]

which is normal behaviour for re-homed dog - basically shouting at the world that this is its pack and don't come near. What were they expecting? sit up and beg???

my own rescued UK origin labrador was the same for about 3 months of having to go to on solitary walks and eventually found letting him walk off the lead had the best response re other dogs coming near.

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Joyce Whitehead — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 17:46:10 GMT

A fairly classic example yesterday. My daughter messaged as a work colleague had collected a Romanian rescue dog on Friday as a companion for their existing dog. Told it was “about 5” and good with other dogs. Got him home, growling at other dog (time may have healed that) but they took him out for a walk and he was lunging at all other dogs trying to attack them. He was also considerably older looking than 5. They took the sensible decision to return him. The charity tried to persuade them to keep him and just try to dominate him as they weren’t being “enough of a pack leader”. Very sad really.

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Niall Taylor — Sun, 13 Jan 2019 12:56:52 GMT

[quote user="Sarah Gowen"]the dog has also had Leishmaniasis[/quote]

There are increasing numbers of Leish positive dogs in the UK, especially the south east of England so that if ever a UK vector decides it is able to transmit the parasite there will be a massive outbreak as a result of these 'trojan dogs'. Sue Shaw has called it 'a disease waiting for a vector'. It's just a question of time sadly

https://www.vettimes.co.uk/news/trojan-rescue-dogs-pose-major-uk-pet-welfare-risk/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19369005

Crazy!

Niall

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Sarah Gowen — Fri, 11 Jan 2019 19:24:37 GMT

[quote user="Joyce Whitehead"]However I do think some of the UK charities have shot themselves in the foot a bit by being quite so picky in who they let take dogs on. No under 5/8/10 children, no working, or only very part time, no main road nearby for cats etc. I suspect for some I wouldn’t meet the criterion and I’ve had dogs all my working life. I have a rescue Border Terrier, who came through breed rescue, and they were very open to our circumstances thankfully. (We do work from very close to home and I usually walk them at lunchtime). [/quote]

I agree that this contributes to the problem. Not exactly the same, but I do know one vet who adopted a dog from Spain (her native country) as the UK charities wouldn't let her adopt due to her working hours.

Incidentally the dog has also had Leishmaniasis in the past and because of this PetPlan were refusing to cover anything other than accidental injury.

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Rob Loxley — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 20:48:15 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]I believe that wholesale import of rescue dogs under a pet passport is an abuse of the PP given that at the time of entry, these dogs are not pets[/quote]

Some seem to be getting round this by getting the new uk owner to adopt the dog while it is still abroad then paying them to ship their dog to the UK under the pet passport scheme...

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Edward Jones — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:46:41 GMT

I believe that wholesale import of rescue dogs under a pet passport is an abuse of the PP given that at the time of entry, these dogs are not pets. Unfortunately clearly border control doesn't agree however!

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Robert FalconerTaylor — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 17:38:09 GMT

I'm a trustee for a small charity [plug alert -http://springerrescuescotland.org/ the liver and white on the home page is one of mine] and we take full responsibility to take a dog back for all the dogs we rehome forever. All our dogs go into foster-care first and are vet-checked and behaviourally assessed before we put them up for adoption. We have no problem PTS dogs we know we'll never rehome and for dogs with ongoing medical problems we assist with the costs in agreement with the new owner.

The reason I tell you this is because I was shocked how little legal protection there is for adoptees of dogs from charities which is why these people bringing dogs here get away with it. It does need much tighter regulation to stop it for the sake of the dogs and the poor folk who get caught in the trap. I do think this is something that huge charities like Dogs Trust could to more about with their annual income of £98.4M (2017).

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Rob Loxley — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 16:52:15 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]some of these rescues are actually just exploiting soft-hearted Brits for cash- my client paid a small fortune to have this dog brought from Cyprus[/quote]

Most we've come across seem to be dog-selling businesses, few operate in the ways that we'd expect a UK rehoming charity to.

However I do strongly agree with the following:

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Julie Innes — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:58:49 GMT

I saw a dog a few years ago, rescued from Cyprus through a rescue organisation. Apparently spayed, vaccinated etc. I examined her a week after arrival- unsocialised, trying to bite, and I had to break it to the client that she was heavily pregnant!! Produced 5 puppies the next week, and the "rescue" didn't want to know! My client had to rehome them to her own family, and has kept 2! None of them are easily handleable. I can't help feeling some of these rescues are actually just exploiting soft-hearted Brits for cash- my client paid a small fortune to have this dog brought from Cyprus.

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Robert FalconerTaylor — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 10:05:46 GMT

There are some horrendous stories in the behaviour world of some of these dogs being rehomed by these ‘charities’ to well-meaning, compassionate folks and basically ruining their lives and desire to ever want to take on a rescue dog again. Biggest problem is charities take no responsibility at all – out of site out of mind, no redress, no returns policy, no refund of monies paid. Some of these get PTS, others don’t and the owners simply put up with it, they get behaviour help but these dogs never adapt, never form a secure bond with owners and a constant liability – one lives not far from me and attacks anyone/anything coming into the garden – woman has no visitors, except by appointment when she locks dog into a bedroom. Needless to say, her social life has evaporated. I’ve heard reports of charities being downright hostile to owners trying to get help from them, or trying to return a dog – ‘all their fault’ they say, the usual shift of blame. Baaah!

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Bob Russell — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:25:55 GMT

When these dogs end up in British homes nothing gets done to deal with the underlying problems and things are just perpetuated.

Ban/control the import, help deal with the problem at source and the issues reduce.

Are some of these dogs really better off here or would euthanasia be a better option longer term? Many are not pets or suitable to be a pet.

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:19:00 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]so why does something that has been damaged get the green light to travel but the perfectly healthy one without a story gets pts?[/quote]

A pretty famous romanian movie called Filantropica explains this extremely well. This movie came out in the 90's during the post revolution chaos and poverty and it's highly recommended if you can find it with subtitles. In one of the scenes the main protagonist receives the following advice: the beggar without a story stays empty handed ;)

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Dinu Catilina — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 09:14:58 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]It is known in India where begging is a career for parents or family to maim the child to improve his/her earning power[/quote]

Pretty much the same with Roma beggars in Romania so nothing new.

However, with the street dogs it is a bit different. Yes it is a business and yes people do make money from it. But those dogs do leave on streets and do end up in kennels after being run over by cars and the surgery is performed by vets with rather dubious skills.

I've seen these things first hand as I volunteered in a local shelter for about 7-8 years, from year 1 at uni until I left Romania. Some of these shelters were started by well meaning volunteers and some by entrepreneurs. Truth is though that these dogs are better off in a UK home then in those filthy prisons.

I agree with everything else though, vaccinations and health status are shady and it is a money scheme.

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Richard Carter — Thu, 10 Jan 2019 08:52:16 GMT

may be accidental - just seem to have had the same story too many times

so why does something that has been damaged get the green light to travel but the perfectly healthy one without a story gets pts?

It is known in India where begging is a career for parents or family to maim the child to improve his/her earning power

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Dinu Catilina — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 22:08:42 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]involved in that terrible accident that had both its back legs pinned (well has had legs pinned but the injuries were not accidental[/quote]

But what do you think they are if not accidental?

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Richard Carter — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 18:54:00 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]

Oh, and another thing that irritates me: they are NOT "corgi crosses"!!

[/quote] or vaccinated or involved in that terrible accident that had both its back legs pinned (well has had legs pinned but the injuries were not accidental) Think have three rescues now arrived with metal work - some good some bad, 2 have had all implants removed due to problems

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Julie Innes — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 17:57:13 GMT

Oh, and another thing that irritates me: they are NOT "corgi crosses"!!

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Miriam Lodewyks — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:57:26 GMT

Ditto: bad idea.

Would be ok if all our rescue centres were empty...

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 15:38:37 GMT

I agree with all above - bad idea on so many levels. Not good for the dogs (they aren't socialised or habituated to a domestic life), not good for UK stray dogs, and awful from a disease perspective.

I have euthanased a street dog, imported at great expense from eastern Europe, that attacked and badly injured members of its new family.

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Joyce Whitehead — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 14:36:40 GMT

I’m with others in thinking this is not a good idea. We also have some rather unsocialised ex street dogs, that have to be walked in muzzles as they will attempt to bite other dogs or even people. In addition the disease risk is high. We have a client importing a Cypriot dog soon that is known to have/have had Leishmaniasis. Apparently under control or cured...? Another client went to collect one dog from a van that had just arrived from Romania to be persuaded to take three, as they had no home for the other two.

However I do think some of the UK charities have shot themselves in the foot a bit by being quite so picky in who they let take dogs on. No under 5/8/10 children, no working, or only very part time, no main road nearby for cats etc. I suspect for some I wouldn’t meet the criterion and I’ve had dogs all my working life. I have a rescue Border Terrier, who came through breed rescue, and they were very open to our circumstances thankfully. (We do work from very close to home and I usually walk them at lunchtime).

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Bob Russell — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 10:03:25 GMT

In general true street dogs should be caught, neutered and marked, vaccinated against rabies etc where appropriate then released back to their original territory.

Numbers are controlled, those that are there tend to do better and are a lower threat to human and animal safety.

Works fine!

Absolute nonsense to transport them here en-masse.

I can understand someone developing a soft spot for an animal they see on holiday and can live with these coming to the UK. Otherwise should be blocked and money spent locally to improve their welfare at home.

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Julie Innes — Wed, 09 Jan 2019 08:43:17 GMT

I think most of the people adopting these dogs are well-meaning, but I have a fair few misgivings.

firstly, I feel there are plenty of unwanted dogs for rehoming in this country, thanks to Gumtree and the "want it now" mentality. Secondly I worry about disease implications- brucellosis was found in one of these dogs, and we also now have to be more aware of distemper (which I had never seen in my 23 year career!) I worry about the legality of some of the movements of the dogs.

But most of all, I worry about the suitability of these dogs for homing. I'm not convinced that taking a completely or poorly socialised dog and cramming it in a transport with a load of others, then bringing it to a totally unfamiliar place and set of surroundings is necessarily in the dogs best interest, however well-meaning. Loads of reports of these guys doing a runner as soon as they are given a sniff of freedom, and I don't always find them easy to work with in the surgery, as they are generally poorly socialised and fearful. I have one client who fosters for one of these rescues, and one pup has now been returned to her twice, and is having behavioural therapy for aggression to people and other dogs.

That's my final issue- what happens when these adoptions fail? UK charities/ rehoming centres can take a dog back, not so easy to send a dog back to Romania, so they end up another burden on the UK charities. Or euthanased. I wish well-meaning people would just send money to the Romanian charities to help them instead of adopting the dogs

RE: The trade in ' Street Dogs'

Iain Richards — Tue, 08 Jan 2019 21:17:08 GMT

It's a foolish conceit that folk are falling for; there's almost certainly a criminal element, and it imports disease.