Working above and beyond

RE: Working above and beyond

Anthony Dennison — Fri, 14 Dec 2018 11:59:05 GMT

[quote user="Wren"] I have worked something like 14 out of the last 18 Christmases because you get made to feel like a grinch if the people with the kids have to work. I might not have kids, but just occasionally I might like to lie in bed until 9am on Christmas Day with a glass of bucks fizz![/quote]

I've worked one of the bank holidays every Christmas or New Year since I qualified in 2012. All the other vets on our 2nd on call rota have had at least one festive period completely off because they have been on maternity leave.

Our first baby is due in June next year, my wife will be on maternity leave over Christmas 2019 and I have already said that I will not be working any of the bank holidays or weekends around then. I think it's only fair, I've done my share and want to enjoy our first Christmas as a family.

RE: Working above and beyond

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 17:24:11 GMT

[quote user="Robin Grimmer"]I think hateful is too strong a word[/quote]

I don't know if I would say the comment is hateful, but I would say the comment (though I would like to stress not necessarily the poster) is homophobic.

RE: Working above and beyond

Lucy Fleming — Tue, 11 Dec 2018 17:22:20 GMT

To go back to the main point, I think (as always) this is an issue where there are many grey areas. There's a big difference between having to stay late and help out for the occasional emergency case that turns up at 5, 10, 30 minutes to closing, and consistently ending up staying late because of poor organisation (on the part of the practice, that is, rather than on the part of the employee). Emergencies happen, and almost every vet I've ever come across wants to help their colleagues to share the workload. What can grate is if there is no planning for or consideration of the possibility that such a thing might happen...

RE: Working above and beyond

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 14:14:10 GMT

I think hateful is too strong a word. But the problem is the use of gay here implies that the orgy is more depraved than a heterosexual one. Personally I couldn't care less what the sexuality of my surgeon was, but I wouldn't want a cocaine addict operating on me!

RE: Working above and beyond

Clive Ansell — Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:41:40 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Someone please enlighten me, how is my comment in answer to Anthony, in any way derogatory or hateful? [/quote]

Look at it this way. Was the use of the word 'gay' necessary? Or was it just used to make the following words (orgy and cocaine) more shocking/damning?

[/quote]

Assuming that to be true, I still do not see how it was hateful. Yes, I could have omitted the word "gay", but I didn't.

It is the word "hate" I take issue with. I simply don't.

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Oh, and as Dinu has already pointed out, not all gay men enjoy anal sex. But many straight men and women do. Go figure.[/quote]

I don't know, and I did not pass comment on this. It's not for me, not up my alley so to speak.

RE: Working above and beyond

Anthony Todd — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 21:36:44 GMT

Anyway the surgeon still puts in a long day without apparent complaint or mentioning work-life balance and just goes to bed early and hopes that will "destress and decompress" him.

His efficiency is a side argument.

Most of the vets BITD did just that but, sadly, some would opine. not any more,

RE: Working above and beyond

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 20:26:45 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Someone please enlighten me, how is my comment in answer to Anthony, in any way derogatory or hateful? [/quote]

Look at it this way. Was the use of the word 'gay' necessary? Or was it just used to make the following words (orgy and cocaine) more shocking/damning?

Change the sentence to include the word 'straight'. Does it have the same impact?

How do you know? maybe he (or she) goes to straight orgies and snorts cocaine all night?

Oh, and as Dinu has already pointed out, not all gay men enjoy anal sex. But many straight men and women do. Go figure.

RE: Working above and beyond

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 17:46:52 GMT

It's not me dude, it's them. One of my best friends has orgies

RE: Working above and beyond

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 17:39:10 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]socially abnormal sexual behaviour (orgy)[/quote]

Hey! What about us orgiasts! Who are you to label us socially abnormal? Check your privilege, you fascist!

RE: Working above and beyond

Dinu Catilina — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 17:29:21 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Someone please enlighten me, how is my comment in answer to Anthony, in any way derogatory or hateful?[/quote]

Clive, it might not be to Anthony. But you associated the word gay with the word orgy and using cocaine. So basically you associated someones sexual orientation with a socially abnormal sexual behaviour (orgy) and an illegal behaviour. Ofcourse it's not offensive if you're straight.

Just like Michael's joke about sitting down. Being a homosexual is probably more than bum sex.

RE: Working above and beyond

Anthony Todd — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 16:50:47 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Someone please enlighten me, how is my comment in answer to Anthony, in any way derogatory or hateful? [/quote]

It didn't bother me but nor did it add anything to a rational discussion.

This, however doesn't help my case and is relevant.....

"We found that adverse events were most common for operations starting between 3 p.m. and 4 p.m.," Wright said. "Furthermore, the predicted probability of an adverse event in the "other" category increased from a low of 1 percent at 9 a.m. to a high of 4.2 percent at 4 p.m."

from

https://corporate.dukehealth.org/news-listing/time-surgery-influences-rate-adverse-health-events-due-anesthesia

[n-1 but my relative has had a totally uneventful recovery]

It needs to be read as it includes "events" which have nothing to do with surgical performance.

Still think staples are medieval!!

RE: Working above and beyond

Clive Ansell — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 16:10:00 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Wren"]But that still doesn't mean I want abdominal surgery conducted by a surgeon at the wrong end of a 12hr+ shift.[/quote]

Fair comment, mind you, he probably just goes home, has a meal and then bed, no bike rides, tennis, swim, horse rides or mucking out after work I wager.

There is a long review article here which comes to no conclusions that I could see except that sleep deprivation is bad but our surgeon probably goes to bed early which is, of course, the most important factor.....

[/quote]

How do you know? maybe he (or she) goes to gay orgies and snorts cocaine all night?

[/quote]

Someone please enlighten me, how is my comment in answer to Anthony, in any way derogatory or hateful?

RE: Working above and beyond

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 15:19:53 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]If it was a gay orgy then it may explain his reluctance to sit down.............[/quote]

FFS Michael, I let the first stupid comment go by, (although I agreed with Dinu) but now you're getting offensive.

Next time you make a smart comment, ask yourself if you'd make the same comment (with the same insinuations), or actually find his sexuality relevant at all, if it were a straight man. If the answer is no, then, maybe, don't?

RE: Working above and beyond

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 14:55:16 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Hateful comment. [/quote]

Don't be daft.

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Orgies and cocaine would probably have been sufficient? Does is matter if the orgy is hetero or homo? [/quote]

If it was a gay orgy then it may explain his reluctance to sit down.............

RE: Working above and beyond

vs0u — Mon, 26 Nov 2018 11:34:22 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]Has the move from vet-owned to corporate practices changed people's feelings - when people felt they owned the practice was the attitude different to when they're making money for the shareholders?[/quote]

Definitely. Working hard for a boss you know and getting back the reward of being a valued team member is completely different from working for free so that rich shareholders can reap the profits. After all, your boss is going to reward you in some way, not necessarily money but in terms of team work, friendship, extra flexibility etc. I would not leave other staff in the lurch, but I am not staying late unpaid for some millionaire to get even richer. (Maybe this is my lefty side coming out!)

RE: Working above and beyond

Wren — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 18:29:17 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"] vets are generally intelligent, self-motivated, conscientious and hard-working people.[/quote]

Unfortunately, as I found out to my cost, vets are also people, and some of them are unpleasant, lazy and completely unmotivated. I had the life sucked out of me by one of these colleagues and it takes a lot of bouncing back from.

RE: Working above and beyond

Richard Carter — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 17:46:08 GMT

it is also amazing how the mood of the practice brings out the best (or worst) as well.

Just one of my bugbears is that in a small independent practice there really are only a few people to make it happen, and if you are the vet, then you are higher up the chain of command for all sorts things probably not even veterinary related whether you like it or not. People are looking to you for leadership. You are going to be invited to talk to the rotary, nursery school or judge the local dog show and if you want your business to survive, you better think about accepting.

Probably not so important in a bigger system with lots of vets on shifts, professional HR, HSE and other managers so possibly the vet/ leader role is less of a requirement but then you more likely to be in the type of job that requires you to work 10 minute consults the whole day. Question is are you then more or less fulfilled being 'just the vet doing veterinary' ?

RE: Working above and beyond

Anthony Todd — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 17:44:43 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]I keep hoping that one day someone will see this, give me that inch..[/quote]

Not disbelieving you at all, or in any way but often actual examples help, so can we have some.

They may stagger us all!

RE: Working above and beyond

Miriam Lodewyks — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 17:23:03 GMT

Back to the OP: what baffles me is how few employers/managers understand that vets are generally intelligent, self-motivated, conscientious and hard-working people.

Speaking for myself: I have the attitude that if you give me an inch, I'll give you a mile back... above and beyond! With pleasure.

I keep hoping that one day someone will see this, give me that inch... instead of taking it, little by little... like a ratchet... until I have no choice but to dig my heals in.

RE: Working above and beyond

Clive Ansell — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 14:57:48 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Hateful comment. Orgies and cocaine would probably have been sufficient? [/quote]

No it isn't.

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Does is matter if the orgy is hetero or homo? [/quote]

It would if I was a participant. I'm not gay.

RE: Working above and beyond

Anthony Todd — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 13:47:40 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]I wonder why the aviation industry has such stringent rules regarding working hours and rest periods? maybe we need to take a good look. [/quote]

So I did......

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/11/01/national/japan-airlines-pilot-temporarily-detained-london-drinking-alcohol-tokyo-flight/#.W_gEiDieRCc

RE: Working above and beyond

Dinu Catilina — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 13:25:19 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Wren"]But that still doesn't mean I want abdominal surgery conducted by a surgeon at the wrong end of a 12hr+ shift.[/quote]

Fair comment, mind you, he probably just goes home, has a meal and then bed, no bike rides, tennis, swim, horse rides or mucking out after work I wager.

[/quote]

How do you know? maybe he (or she) goes to gay orgies and snorts cocaine all night?

I wonder why the aviation industry has such stringent rules regarding working hours and rest periods? maybe we need to take a good look.

[/quote]

Hateful comment. Orgies and cocaine would probably have been sufficient? Does is matter if the orgy is hetero or homo?

RE: Working above and beyond

Clive Ansell — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 08:09:09 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="Wren"]But that still doesn't mean I want abdominal surgery conducted by a surgeon at the wrong end of a 12hr+ shift.[/quote]

Fair comment, mind you, he probably just goes home, has a meal and then bed, no bike rides, tennis, swim, horse rides or mucking out after work I wager.

[/quote]

How do you know? maybe he (or she) goes to gay orgies and snorts cocaine all night?

I wonder why the aviation industry has such stringent rules regarding working hours and rest periods? maybe we need to take a good look.

RE: Working above and beyond

Wren — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 08:07:55 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[/quote]

We hope they (we) don't turn to drugs or alcohol to cope of course.

[/quote]

Or indeed that the 'no bike rides, tennis, swim, horse rides or mucking out after work' robs them of the opportunity to destress and decompress.

RE: Working above and beyond

Francisco Gomez — Fri, 23 Nov 2018 05:59:39 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[/quote]

We hope they (we) don't turn to drugs or alcohol to cope of course.