Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Holly Lee — Fri, 17 Jul 2009 15:41:54 GMT

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]maybe it's just me but surely you should have dogs on lead when near livestock?[/quote]

In my experience having your dog on a lead doesn't stop cattle approaching/attacking the dog - or yourself - and the advice is if you are attacked let the dog go to improve both chances of survival.

I am also in agreement that if you're following a planned route along public footpaths it's not always that easy to avoid walking through fields with cattle - newly calved or otherwise. And however much care you take to avoid getting too close, the cattle can have other ideas!

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Toby Birch — Thu, 16 Jul 2009 11:41:55 GMT

Unfortunately walkers being injured or killed by cattle is all too common. In September 1991 (long before I was a vet) my father was almost killed by a herd of 17 Charolais-cross cows with 17 fully grown calves. He was walking our two dogs on leads on a gated road near where we lived and the field he was walking through had a suckler herd in it. He was approached and surrounded by the herd on the gated road and tossed repeatedly in the air, two cows tried to roll on him, one of which tried to kneel on him (she now thought he was a dog). Luckily an observant and brave passer-by had got out of his car to open a fieldgate and noticed my father being thrown into the air. Without that rescue, he would shortly have been killed. Three broken ribs, a smashed knee, a smashed wrist and fractured collar-bone, not to mention extensive bruising and a subsequent DVT with MPE, left him unrecognisable. He was lucky to survive, recovery taking four months.

The NFU Mutual, the farmer’s Liability Insurers, denied liability alleging a cow attack upon a human being was not foreseeable and therefore was an accident without liability attaching, also contributory negligence because my father did not release the dogs from their leads. My father's wholly successful case in the Birmingham County Court (Trial Judgment 20th. January 1995) effectively became the test case on the foreseeability of cows attacking human beings, the outcome being widely reported in the media and it was covered extensively on BBC Countryfile in February 1995. Various H&SE and NFU recommendations made following the Judgment have not been implemented. In the following years my father was contacted by more than 50 walkers/law firms regarding similar occurrences, in some cases fatalities. In early 2008 I think, after another death, the topic was covered on the BBC Radio 2 Jeremy Vine Show – with a further contribution from my father.

Unfortunately the topic has raised its head again this summer and I expect will go on doing so. Sensible middle ground must be found.

Toby

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Niall Taylor — Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:36:09 GMT

[quote user="Hannah Wynne Richards"]

That one was definitely self-inflicted, so no sympathy.

Wynne[/quote]

I'm inclined to agree.

Niall

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Hannah Wynne Richards — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 11:47:56 GMT

That one was definitely self-inflicted, so no sympathy.

Wynne

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Mike Martin — Fri, 10 Jul 2009 09:38:20 GMT

A man has been gored to death in the traditional running of the bulls in Pamplona, northern Spain, the first such fatality there for 14 years.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8143744.stm

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Phil Elkins — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:28:25 GMT

To Wynne, that's why I say 3 months - for safety sakes 9 months would be fine, they're just akwards.

To Arlo, anything that is a change from a happy contented cow behaviour. At pasture, cows should either be standing feeding, or lying down chewing their cud for 90% of the time. It is usual for them to look at you when they spot you, but within a short itme assuming you are not walking towards them, they lose interest. Any deviation from that pattern is a step up. Staring for long periods of time, ears up and back, head held high. Surprisingly, similar behaviours to an aggressive dog if you saw one! Quite often if cows are chewing their cud, they will stop when they spot you, and then return to it after 30 seconds or so. Any cow which does not, is worth keeping a close eye on.

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:19:34 GMT

[quote user="Phil Elkins"]I have never in 28 years of experience handling cattle experienced an attack from cattle without prior warning signs. These may be incredibly subtle but they are always there. [/quote]

Er, what are they? (says he, planning a stroll through a few cow-filled fields this afternoon!)

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Hannah Wynne Richards — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:12:18 GMT

Would also save us the horrible job of sawing them off with an embryotomy wire when they are half-grown !!!!

Wynne

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Phil Elkins — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:04:03 GMT

I forgot to say, and I do advise clients this, any animal which acts in an unneccassarily (spelling?) aggressive way sould be culled. Also reading Mike's link about the woman speared by a horn, I believe it should be made a legal requirement that all cattle other than pedigree longhorn or pedigree shorthorns should be disbudded by 3 months of age.

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Phil Elkins — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:59:32 GMT

Please don't misinterpret this as I do feel genuine sympathy for those hurt or killed by cattle. I am an exclusively farm animal vet. As part of my day to day job I see the whole range of cattle behaviour. this ranges from the dairy farmer with 12 cows who will go up and hold them round the neck whilst I try to remove the stinking cleansing from the back end with the cow seemingly in a trance to the pedigree blonde heifer who was 3 days calved and tried her hardest to hit a spot 6 feet behind me without realising I was in the way.

In the vast majority of cases, cattle are fear based animals who will avoid confrontation at all costs. There are obvious exceptions to this rule. Dairy breed bulls (or bulls of any breed) are completely unpredictable and should never be allowed in fields with footpaths through them. And yes I include Dexters in that. Feshly calved beef animals will frequently act protectively of their young. This is a natural behaviour and completely understandable. These animals are a risk to human and animal safety and steps should be taken to minimise the risk.

I think it is wrong of people, especially vets to blame cattle for this. The general public should not consider a public footpath or a permissive path as a right to a safe route from one side to the other. If there are cows with young calves at foot in the field, all dogs should be kept on leads unless approached by cattle in a threatening manner at which point they should be released. A route through the field should be picked so as not to disturb the cattle. If a dog is known to be aggressive or overly passive in the presence of cattle, or if the owner is not confident with reading cattle behaviour, an alternative route should be chosen.

I have never in 28 years of experience handling cattle experienced an attack from cattle without prior warning signs. These may be incredibly subtle but they are always there. I appreciate that there will always be an occassion when if theose signs occur you may not be in a position to leave a field immediately but there are steps that can be taken to reduce the threat.

Equally I do believe farmers have to be sensible regarding the placement of cows with very young calves at foot. The majority of farmers do not have sufficient land not to have cows on at least one field with a footpath, but there is almost always a way of keeping calves and cows off these fields until they are of a less aggressive age(1 month usually suffices).

We are very lucky to have such an extensive network of public footpaths and permissive paths in the UK, and without tolerating agricultural methods, I believe we should be more likely to lose the paths than to lose the cattle in the fields.

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Sarah Smith — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:09:23 GMT

Bad things don't happen exclusively to idiots.

Warning notices at least allow people the option to ignore at their peril- of course I would not have gone into a field of cows and calves with 2 dogs had I been aware that they were there, and once I realised they were there there was nothing I could do; whether the dogs were on or off the lead was irrelevant- we were seen as fellow aggressors- and sadly I had left the Kalashnikov and invisibility cloak at home. The best advice I can offer anyone (including hill-walking, fell-running jocks) who are unfortunate enough to find themselves in a similar situation is to curl in a prone foetal ball and wait till they've run off in triumph. This way you just get used as trampoline and punch bag- stand up and they turn into bovine rocket launchers.

This is a serious matter; people are dying, not just getting a bit wet. The cows did not attack me out of objection to my sartorial elegance, they had just been turned out with their new calves and saw me as a threat. The situation would have been avoided if I had known they were there. The same goes for the lady who had her skull fractured by the same gang only 2 hours after me (she fortunately was accompanied by a group of friends who managed to chase the beasts away), and very likely to a host of others, many of whom do not have the opportunity to tell the tale.

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 09:24:00 GMT

suppose i'm just lucky enough to have walks near me that don't involve crossing fields - and those that do are arable. Admittedly i never would cross a field with livestock in with my dogs but then one of them is a collie and would get far too excited by the idea, and likely attract attention!

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Utlendigur — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 23:24:26 GMT

I'm pretty sure the new Country Code requires you to have dogs on leads in fields of stock - but advises you to let the dogs off the lead if cattle approach.

This was in the news today http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8134778.stm

To me this seems totally ridiculous and symtomatic of the nanny state we currently live in, where it is always someone else's job to assess the risk for you. What next - hill sheep farmers sued because they didn't put warning notices stating that the hills are steep and the weather can turn nasty? The farm I mentioned previously wouldn't be able to function if they weren't allowed to graze cows with calves in fields containing footpaths since they have suckler cows and at a rough estimate 75% of their fields have footpaths crossing them.

I'm a keen hillwalker and fellrunner and I've realised it doesn't matter how many news stories, advice leaflets, even warning notices there are - there are still idiots who will ignore them. Eg just spent a week on Skye - while walking out of the Cuillin after a few days backpacking, I met a family coming the other way a couple of miles from the road (and the warning sign saying remote terrain, bad weather, properly equipped etc). Father was in ordinary shoes, mother in those white fashion trainers, daughter in court shoes and son in flip flops. All in light summer clothers, no waterproofs etc. The thunderstorm hit just as I reached the car - heaven knows where they were at that point.

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Niall Taylor — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 17:05:42 GMT

[quote user="Hanna Bennett"]

maybe it's just me but surely you should have dogs on lead when near livestock?

[/quote]

I'm not convinced that would make much difference. A farmer I knew who nearly had his neck broken after being tossed by one of his Limousins reckons the reason he was attacked was because he had his dog on the lead and he was caught in the crossfire when the cows attacked the dog. Having a dog close to you would make it more likely that you would be included as a target.

The problem is that newly calved beef cows and walkers (with or without dogs, on or off leads) just don't mix.

Cheers,

Niall

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Mike Martin — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:57:29 GMT

It seems attack by cattle is a common problem for farmers, even without dogs.

There but for the grace of God......

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1034331/Farmer-impaled-mouth-cows-12-inch-horn.html

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/news/Farmer-airlifted-cow-attack-horror/article-1099294-detail/article.html

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Arlo Guthrie — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 14:47:58 GMT

This was my most frightening altercation with a cow (or rather, a bull).

Actually, that's not me in the photo. I was the next into the ring. Bull turned to face me and started pawing the ground. I held the blanket up directly in front of me (rather than to one side, as instructed). Bull charged. I froze. Remained frozen as the bull charged towards my outstretched blanket, which offered predictably little protection. Thankfully, the horns passed either side of me.

I'd been told that if the worst happened, I should lie still on the ground, and the bull would go away. Not this damned bull. Came for another go. Friends all looking on in horror, doing nothing, as it did its best to gore me. Finally lost my temper, and started trying to punch it, which was right up there with 'hold a blanket in front of you' on the top ten list of ineffective ways to save yourself from an angry bull.

Thankfully, someone finally manage to distract the bull, and I escaped with just a couple of bruises.

Moral of the story: if anyone invites you on a stag night, and tells you it'll be followed the next day by a little gentle bullfighting, decline politely.

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Hanna Bennett — Mon, 29 Jun 2009 11:38:28 GMT

maybe it's just me but surely you should have dogs on lead when near livestock?

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Sarah Smith — Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:20:02 GMT

Hi- I'm the friend Mike mentioned; happy to be able to join in.

Reading the news item yesterday was like reading my obituary. This time last year I was walking my dogs on a footpath through a field which had been free of livestock for a couple of months- I chose that route for that reason. I didn't see the Limos until they saw me and it was too late. I was tossed into the air, butted and trampled. They continued to attack me even after my dogs had fled, and I still don't understand how I lived through it.

The farmer now has very clear warning signs on all fields with cows and calves. I too resent the assumption that small animal vets are towny idiots. Even farmers sometimes get killed by cows.

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Utlendigur — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:56:49 GMT

It didn't actually say they were newly calved, or that she didn't realise the risk. I'm a SA vet but well aware of the risks when walking my dogs - sometimes though it's difficult to avoid. On Sunday I was most of the way through a long walk, when I realised that the last field I had to cross had cattle in it. Choice was a long walk back or risk it - and given that the cattle were at the other end of a huge field + no calves it seemed ok - until the police helicopter flew overhead and spooked a solid wall of limousins in my direction! Luckily we were almost across by then. There's also a farm near my home with numerous footpaths through small fields with high hedges, small woods, through which the cattle and sheep seem to have free range - it's difficult to see which fields they're in. It's not always easy to find a cattle-free route.....

Re: Call for a dangerous Cows' Act

Hannah Wynne Richards — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:40:46 GMT

Always upsetting to hear of the unnecessary death of a young person. What I find really shocking is that 2 veterinary surgeons should have walked dogs through a field containing newly-calved cows, without realising that they would see the dog as a potential predator to their calves, and react accordingly. This really shows how our profession has become polarised. I am now in SA practice, but grew up a farmer's daughter. It was 2nd nature to me, b4 I left primary school, that one never took a dog near a newly-calved cow, or one would be asking for trouble. They are fine unless they have their young with them. Of course, bulls, especially dairy breeds, or WBs/Lims are another matter. The fact that fully-qualified professionals now lack this basic animal knowledge really brings home how much our profession has divided into 2