Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 16:37:42 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Dennison"]Some older vets that are selling their practice as part of their retirement may stay on during the transition period as 'consultants', is this what you meant?[/quote]I believe I do, confusion in terminology. But that said it was only meant as a lighthearted quip - perhaps I should have added a smiley!

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Louise6732 — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:48:37 GMT

Hi anon,

liverpool Uni have a distance learning course in veterinary business management You can do one or two modules or the entire course. I’ve completed the course and found it very useful to learn about the business side of practice.

Louise

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Anthony Dennison — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 15:46:23 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Isn't 'clinical director' just corporate management speak for a semi-retired vet who doesn't do much except act as figurehead, works part time and imparts his knowledge to the assistants? Or am I being too cynical?[/quote]

As Gillian and Wren have said, the Clinical Director is often the hardest working person in the practice as they're doing their normal clinical work as well as all the management/HR stuff as well, often taking it home with them.

Some older vets that are selling their practice as part of their retirement may stay on during the transition period as 'consultants', is this what you meant?

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Gillian Mostyn — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 14:12:19 GMT

Wrong here too.

Mine is a full time VN who works longer than everyone else.

She is also very good.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Wren — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:15:47 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]Now an opportunity has come up with a corporate to be a clinical director.[/quote]Isn't 'clinical director' just corporate management speak for a semi-retired vet who doesn't do much except act as figurehead, works part time and imparts his knowledge to the assistants? Or am I being too cynical?

[/quote]

Yes, you are being too cynical. Ours are nowhere near retirement, and working full time at the coalface, in addition to their management role.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Anthony Todd — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:10:30 GMT

Do the books all mention charging for all goods and services, which was one of our major problems.

Our vets were on commission for services [not fees] !!

Made no difference at all.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Matt Hilary — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 12:00:48 GMT

Blackwell's have a Practice Management book that is quite useful for focussing on particular topics (https://www.wiley.com/en-gb/Blackwell's+Five+Minute+Veterinary+Practice+Management+Consult,+2nd+Edition-p-9781118529249) if you don't mind spending a bit of money.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Liz Barton — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:27:26 GMT

BVA has a section on workplace guidance. If you're a member there are a lot of resources you can access on this

https://www.bva.co.uk/Workplace-guidance/

And, as others have said, this:

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:22:28 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[/quote]

The one I know works extremely long hours doing the most demanding clinical work because she is very experienced, plus all the management tasks. I think she is working far harder under more pressure than I ever did as an owner , the only difference being that she could walk away tomorrow which an owner cannot.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 04 Oct 2018 10:37:14 GMT

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

George Cooper — Wed, 03 Oct 2018 12:04:33 GMT

A few comments on this, though as with one or two others, I have zero experience of Clinical Director roles, having been a practice partner, owner, “consultant” over the years.

To me the greatest stretch of being “in management” is the Human Resources aspect - dealing with staff and their problems, as you won’t be one of the boys any more! One useful technique to use when a staff member come to you with a problem, like “I can’t get this xxx to work” - instead of taking it over and you attempt to sort it (thereby adding to your own workload) is to bat it back to them asking “How would you like me to help you?”, otherwise theyre back pestering you to get their problem sorted!

People comment about “a successful practice” - and I have no idea what a successful practice is! Is it purely financial, or is it staff fulfilment, or happiness, or happy clients? I suppose it is a factor of all, but how the heck is one expected to measure that!

Ultimately a practice thrives or withers by the way it treats clients, because without clients we have no business, and, once again a staff issue, it is how the vets and nurses empathise, understand, and deal with the vast panoply of owners and their foibles - especially as dealing with an owner can get in the way of the pursuit clinical “Gold Standard” as evidenced by so many recent grads.

Good luck with being a CD!

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 01 Oct 2018 09:24:21 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]Won’t the corporate train you for the role?[/quote]

My experience of IVC is that there is a lot of training for new clinical directors. I'm pretty sure CVS do the same. The people I know that have gone through the IVC version speak very highly of it. There's also a lot of support from your regional teams as well as centrally.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Beats — Sun, 30 Sep 2018 21:00:12 GMT

Very Important Disclaimer: I have never worked in a management role! (and I would not think I was very suitable for one either)

But my thought would be you are probably pretty familiar with the vet-side of things, you've probably experienced styles of management that do and don't seem to work from the other side of the fence (and there's only so much that someone can teach you about handling other people rather than you learning from experience), so brushing up on general management/business knowledge/jargon is maybe going to be most useful prior to starting such a role (which as mentioned is likely to involve some training on the specifics in relation to your role in a vet clinic)?

If so, then perhaps reading some classics rather than paying for expensive training courses will do you better? If you're the lateral-thinking type, then calculating the cost of what you were going to spend on "CPD" and putting it into a kitty to treat your staff with (or fix they're problems such as rubbish slow thermometers), assuming you can legally do so out of your own pocket(!) might be a better use of the money than attending a seminar by an opinionated "expert". [I am heavily suspicious of any knowledge that is so secret it can only be imparted through an attendance course and can never simply be written down... or indeed any general business/management knowledge that is so recent that no-one had ever thought of it before...]

Here's a rather limited suggested reading list of books I've personally liked (though as I say I can't pretend to know whether they are of use for those in management roles or not!), others with managment experience might like to add any suggestions that they found helpful or could recommend.

10-day MBA by Steven Silbiger (I think this most fulfills your brief) www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/The-10-day-MBA--A-Step-by-Step-Guide-to-Mastering-the-Skills-Taught-in-Top-Business-Schools-9780749927004)

The unwritten rules of the game by Peter Scott-Morgan (I thought this book was brilliant personally) https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/The-Unwritten-Rules-of-the-Game-9780070570757

Team roles at work by Belbin (I'm not a Belbin-er myself, but I'll confess that reading it did make me think about worker co-dependence and successful teams, as did his book about management teams) (https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/Team-Roles-at-Work-9780750626750)

Pettinger's "Introduction to Management" is too textbooky for me to recommend it, but per page is excellent value for money if you want something weighty to nibble at and have more time and enthusiasm than sense (https://www.betterworldbooks.com/product/detail/Introduction-to-Management-9780230000384)

The internet is of course a free source of information also. You might like:

https://www.businessballs.com/

There are vet specific management/business books out there also (but obviously a bit more niche, so bit more limited choice and quality, or more importantly readability, might be quite variable)

Finally, if reading really isn't your thing, but internet chats do it for you, then Liverpool do offer some vet business internet courses in a structured format (albeit at quite a cost and only at specific times in year...) https://www.liverpool.ac.uk/vets/cpd/vet-business/

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

David Mills — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 23:36:11 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]

Won’t the corporate train you for the role? Its very much in their interests for you to be a great manager.

[/quote]

This.

If they're a good employer, they will.

Also management is a different beast. Prepare to be a different person.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 21:38:12 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"] Helping your practice team to give you their best and enjoy their work is the key to a successful practice. [/quote]

This

I have only one piece of advice.

Look after your staff, and they'll look after the practice. Sometimes, that means backing your staff against 'the higher management'.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 19:36:21 GMT

Also with any vet practice if you have enough happy clients and they are charged correctly for the service you provide then the financial side of everything is straightforward. Helping your practice team to give you their best and enjoy their work is the key to a successful practice. That’s the greatest challenge and the most rewarding.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:57:41 GMT

Won’t the corporate train you for the role? Its very much in their interests for you to be a great manager.

RE: Where to learn about more commercial aspects veterinary practice?

Joyce Whitehead — Sat, 29 Sep 2018 17:37:59 GMT

I don’t know much about clinical director roles, but I think SPVS is maybe your best bet. Have a look at this for a starter...

https://vpma-spvs-events.co.uk/new-to-management-2019/