Staff members with insured pets

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Chris Barker — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 19:25:00 GMT

The scenario has been discussed by the Standards Committee at the RCVS and is covered by the Code of Conduct

Discounts on veterinary fees

9.13 Veterinary practices have the commercial freedom to offer discounts on their fees on terms set by them. This might include discounts for members of staff, discounts for early settlement and discounts for certain clients e.g. students, pensioners etc. Discounts generally are acceptable, but it is never acceptable to present a client with inflated fees so as to create the fiction of a discount.

9.14 Discounts should be clearly recorded and transparent for all parties liable for payment of an account. Where there is an arrangement that more than one party is liable for payment of an account (eg insurance companies where client pays the excess), it is not reasonable to apply a retrospective discount for the benefit of one party only.

ie. You cannot charge the Insurance company the full amount and then retrospectively discount the remaining amount to the staff member. The insurance company has a right to benefit from the discount you offer the staff member as much as the staff member! To do otherwise is to defraud the insurance company as you are not levying your full fees....

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Stephen Courtney — Sat, 28 Jul 2018 14:25:12 GMT

Can you confirm that? Very interested!

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Anthony Dennison — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 09:24:24 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

Petplan's vet staff discount is 10% which works out about 3 quid a month for me.

I won't be spending it all at once...

[/quote]

Interesting - pretty sure they said 20% to me last Friday...

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Stephen Courtney — Mon, 23 Jul 2018 07:12:28 GMT

I’m sure you looked after your staff pets with an admirable ‘professional courtesy’ that is long forgotten these days - and I also think you would have been a decent boss - pity you have retired!

My practice employs over 100 people most of whom have several pets, so I can see the issue in another light. A certain number of a persons pets get an automatic 50% discount. In addition staff can join the pet health club for very preferential rates for as many pets as they like.

and vaccines are at cost.

I dont think it’s that bad a deal all things considered

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Anthony Todd — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 23:22:39 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

Petplan's vet staff discount is 10% which works out about 3 quid a month for me.

I won't be spending it all at once...

[/quote]

Pity you didn't work for me......

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Stephen Courtney — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 22:55:13 GMT

The old chestnut of employees needing to grateful for their job so they work all hours required, not being paid for their (over)time, which is all they have to sell?

bloody snowflakes don't know they were born, back in Herriot's days we knew what a vocation was, by God!

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Stephen Courtney — Sun, 22 Jul 2018 22:52:13 GMT

Petplan's vet staff discount is 10% which works out about 3 quid a month for me.

I won't be spending it all at once...

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Anthony Todd — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 20:21:28 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]Ah, that old chestnut [/quote]

Glad I'm well out of it now as common sense, fair play, give and take, and employee/employer relations seem to have been sacrificed on the altar of legal compliance, even more if in grey and vague areas.

I doubt if any current employee would come in on a Sunday morning, in some of today's practices, if asked, judging by the recent response.

There's bound to be some contractual or legal prohibition, so let's take a blood, give analgesics and wait for the results on Monday......

Nowadays there's always a reason not to give a drug or do something, even if it is blindingly obviously probably helpful and better than doing sweet Fanny Adams.

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Rob Loxley — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 17:05:13 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]

[quote user="robloxley"]And declared it as a taxable benefit on P11d?[/quote]

[/quote]

Lucky you didn't have an HMRC PAYE & NIC inspection ('Employer Compliance Review'), they are pretty keen on such things.

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]overtime they were never paid for.....[/quote]

Ah, that old chestnut

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Anthony Todd — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 15:07:11 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]And declared it as a taxable benefit on P11d?[/quote]

No, nor did the staff pay pay tax on the overtime they were never paid for.....

I suppose some vets now charge staff when they give an opinion on a staff member's animal??

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Rob Loxley — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 14:01:54 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]We always treated staff pets for free 'cos most of them didn't abuse it, and most of them went the extra mile if it was necessary[/quote]

And declared it as a taxable benefit on P11d?

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Anthony Todd — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 13:01:12 GMT

We always treated staff pets for free 'cos most of them didn't abuse it, and most of them went the extra mile if it was necessary. The vets were giving their time and the drugs, mainly, cost little.

But one with >5 pets....

And they [usually] paid cost for food, but some abused the system so I think it requires policing!

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Rob Loxley — Sat, 21 Jul 2018 11:14:28 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]My dog is insured. Petplan £7k/ year. I get a 50% discount as a staff member, and I'm corporate so if I refer to an IVC specialist I also get 50% discount - but so does Petplan.[/quote]

But petplan gives you, as a vet, a discount on their premium (albeit not 50% but I suspect that reflects the difference between the practice profit margin and the insurer's gross margin on their book)

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]Works well EXCEPT when the animal is insured! Clearly the discount is for the staff member - not their insurance! At the same time I don't want the staff member to lose their "benefit".[/quote]

If you're really worried about this, why not bin the staff discount and increase the staff wages?

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 23:53:54 GMT

[quote user="Simon Neuhoff"]Works well EXCEPT when the animal is insured! [/quote]

I fail to see that.

Insurance is to cover (apart from excess) what it costs the insured. If it costs the insured less than it might have done, it costs them less.

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Stephen Courtney — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 23:21:55 GMT

You have to allow the insurance company to benefit from the staff discount alas.

My dog is insured. Petplan £7k/ year. I get a 50% discount as a staff member, and I'm corporate so if I refer to an IVC specialist I also get 50% discount - but so does Petplan.

I don't mind at all personally, I still prefer to have my pet insured, and I have the freedom to go anywhere if I want.

though I have become aware that 7k/year is not necessarily enough these days....

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Jill Butterworth — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 20:05:18 GMT

Some policies allow veterinary staff to have a cheaper policy with a high excess of about £500, which means they may not need to claim very often and allows them to use their staff perk.

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Beats — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 19:20:16 GMT

Have a discount (for staff in this instance) that only applies to payment on day of treatment?

RE: Staff members with insured pets

James Dunne — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 09:20:33 GMT

It depends on your practice and to an extent, its size. If it is a large practice, it is perhaps financially risky to offer large discounts to all staff. Discounts should only be given if payment is made at the time of services being delivered or goods being collected. I would be careful not to offer a different fee level to an insured staff member compared to an uninsured one. It is tempting to treat insured staff members the same as any other client. The difficulty comes then when they want a discount for non-covered items or when they have multiple pets, some of whom are insured and some of whom aren't. Better off to have the same rules for everyone (insured or not) and if you drop a small amount on the insured cases within the practice, it is a lot less than the headache of trying to keep everyone happy or worse still, being pulled up by an insurance company.

RE: Staff members with insured pets

Michael Woodhouse — Fri, 20 Jul 2018 09:18:56 GMT

The only thing you can do is charge the insurance company the discounted amount, anything else would be fraudulent. That's my conclusion. We sign saying these are the 'normal' fees we'd have charged in such a situation. I also assumed it was the reason that some insurance companies give discount to animals owned by vets and nurses.