Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Rob Loxley — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 18:39:54 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Veterinary practices bought by pet food manufacturer![/quote]

A company that already owns a number of US vet practice groups, employing over 50,000 vets.

Is this any 'worse' than PAH Group who own lots of pet shops owning V4P and (what was) Companion Care.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Bob Russell — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 13:44:33 GMT

[quote user="nikki"]

Blimey. Talk about off on a tangent. 2.5pages of replies on dog food.

I work for a practice owned by Linnaeus so I guess that means we're owned by Mars now. No changes so far but I guess there probably will be in time. I will vote with my feet if needed but at the moment don't have any great concerns.

[/quote]

Not really!

Veterinary practices bought by pet food manufacturer!

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

bevs2251 — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 05:30:00 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Thought Mr Lonsdale, given the title of the thread, might have greeted us with his presence by now?[/quote]

Looks like Dr Lonsdale wants to retire - he has his practice in western Sydney up for sale/partnership. I always remember many years ago at an AVA meeting one night, Tom distributing faecal containers with faeces from dogs fed raw meaty bone diet as part of his presentation ! . Not as vocal as he used to be.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 23:12:25 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]The reasons I don't sell food are:[/quote]

All those yes, and the same reason I don't sell collars, toys or Christmas stockings: I'm a veterinary surgeon, not a pet shop.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

nikki — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 20:30:23 GMT

Blimey. Talk about off on a tangent. 2.5pages of replies on dog food.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Bob Russell — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:29:29 GMT

We sell the Virbac range and it sells reasonably well. We gave up with Royal Canin having been a massive seller until their arrangements with internet sellers made us uncompetitive.

It is a good range of food that I believe has lost its way with marketing. Still await the arrival of the three legged dog diet.

I have no problems with selling any diet that is 'better' than the average supermarket food but have never believed that any one food company has the answers.

Food sales were good for bonding clients until the loyalty schemes became mean and the food could be bought from and delivered by Fetch for less than we pay before VAT is added!

I am very unhappy with the cheap raw food being peddled around here and we have seen quite a rise in campylobacter cases. Hey, Ho! Good for business!!

I have to say I remain mystified by the corporate veterinary world. Not sure Mars group will be any less ethical than the nutty marketers and accountants out there at the moment!

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 17:17:46 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I'm another who doesn't sell food. I will steer clients towards prescription diets if they are appropriate, and have a small stock for use in the kennel room. If clients really want me to get it for them, I will get it in to order each time.[/quote]

We sell some 'life stage' foods, we don't particularly push it but we get enough people coming in to buy cat food that we keep a small amount in stock, the dog food sells less well but we do have some clients that we order it in for.

We recommend and sell diets for specific medical conditions, I try not to use the term 'prescription diet'! We keep in the ones we sell most commonly like the renal and urinary ones, and GI low fat for pancreatitis cases, others get ordered in as necessary. We are finding that more clients will buy it from us initially, but then order it online, but still find that quite a few clients prefer to buy it from us.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Anthony Todd — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 16:23:10 GMT

Five years ago diets of all types were over 10% of turnover over a number of enthusiastic and unenthusiastic locations.

How you perceive this statistic is up to you, certainly we have lost client[s] when we "did not stock" and "would not order" diet we hadn't in stock when a "potential"new client [Porsche on pavement and Yorkie in arms] asked.....

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Julie Innes — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 08:52:17 GMT

I'm another who doesn't sell food. I will steer clients towards prescription diets if they are appropriate, and have a small stock for use in the kennel room. If clients really want me to get it for them, I will get it in to order each time.

The reasons I don't sell food are:

1. I was put off it after being forced to try selling it in a previous practice (I argued, and ultimately left)

2. I don't really have space in the waiting room

3. It goes out of date

4. I can't compete with internet prices, and people are very internet savvy. Even PAH etc can sell cheaper than me

5. There is no one food that is "best" for every dog- different foods suit different dogs

6.I will admit- I don't really know enough (and am not interested enough to go into lots of depth ) about the ins and outs of canine and feline nutrition, so it would be led by commercial interests rather than professional, which I don't think it right

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Clive Ansell — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 07:24:21 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]A bit difficult to answer a question regarding independence if 'Independent' appears in the owners title![/quote]

I don't volunteer the information, but will answer truthfully if asked by a client.

I had one about 3 weeks ago; client stated "we're moving to you (from V4P's) because we want to come to a small local privately owned practice" I had to respond "well, actually this practice is owned by a large group, although it still trades as independent" client unimpressed.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Robert FalconerTaylor — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 06:21:19 GMT

This study tells you all you need to know about dog food. Question is, which food comp. is up for the challenge of making it :>))

Anthropogenic Food Subsidy to a Commensal Carnivore The Value and Supply of Human Faeces in the Diet of Free-Ranging Dogs -

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29702585

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 00:50:39 GMT

[quote user="Chris Geddes"]Depends what you mean by "wild dog". African wild dog, Lycaon pictus? Very different to domestic dog. And whatever wild dog pups eat, it doesn't mean it's necessarily the best food for them. I would want the lifespan (and the health) of a domestic dog over any wild dog I should think.[/quote]

No, what I had in mind was the Asiatic wild dog, commonly called the dhole, Cuon alpinus; but the jackals would do , Canis aureus for instance, or the dingo (Canis lupus dingo); or the wolves, Canis lupus for instance; or, not straying too far, what about our own dear Vulpes vulpes. But, the most obvious example, what about the Indian street dog, instantly recognisable, Canis familiaris, and jolly healthy.

And I said "largely gimmick" not "invariably gimmick".

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

bob lehner — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:53:35 GMT

[quote user="Chris Geddes"]Depends what you mean by "wild dog". African wild dog, Lycaon pictus? Very different to domestic dog[/quote]

Canis familiaris (aka 'domestic dog') has been merrily and very successfully breeding since prehistoric times - generally feeding on whatever was available - and is one of the most widespread and prolific species on the planet.

Commercial so-called 'Lifestage' diets have been around for c.10 years max. Bit early to draw any conclusions I'd say.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Rob Loxley — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 18:51:05 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]They are not POM-V products as prescription only medicines are, so I find the term misleading[/quote]

It's just a Hills trademark. Though there is an argument about whether there should be veterinary oversight of Hills Y/D?

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Chris Geddes — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:30:09 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]

[quote user="Chris Geddes"]I think you mean life stage diets. Interesting that you think they are a gimmick. Would you feed a recently-weaned puppy on adult food?[/quote]

Why not? How much good evidence is behind life stage diets?

[/quote]

Quite a lot on changing requirements for Ca:P ratios required in pups versus adults I seem to remember. I haven't the inclination to look up right now!

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Chris Geddes — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:26:41 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

What does a recently-weaned wild dog live on?

I think some of my clients would balk at swallowing the food then vomiting it up for the puppy, but more than one has pre-chewed the food for a puppy or an elderly dog.

[/quote]

Depends what you mean by "wild dog". African wild dog, Lycaon pictus? Very different to domestic dog. And whatever wild dog pups eat, it doesn't mean it's necessarily the best food for them. I would want the lifespan (and the health) of a domestic dog over any wild dog I should think.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Chris Geddes — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 16:18:36 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

While we are on the topic, what about so called prescription diets?

They are not POM-V products as prescription only medicines are, so I find the term misleading. They can be purchased on line with out a prescription.

Is there a good evidence base behind the use of prescription diets?

[/quote]

As I'm sure you know, "Prescription Diet" is a trade mark owned by Hills.

There used to be a true prescription diet - POM-V - distributed in the UK - certainly around 2013/2014 - not sure if still available. But couldn't be called a prescription diet as Hills owned TM. No wonder people get confused :)

As for good evidence...depends on the diet. There certainly is behind diets for some - CRF, pancreatitis, food allergy, etc. Where there isn't good evidence - doesn't mean necessarily isn't worth trying if there is relatively weak evidence or at least logic behind it, as long as the pet owner understands this rationale. Same with many pharmaceutical prescriptions.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Niall Taylor — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 15:20:01 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]"This is like our hospitals being owned by McDonalds and KFC. It’s wrong on so many levels."[/quote]

Only if you buy into the bogus raw food lobby's arguments.

Niall

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Bob Russell — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:46:04 GMT

A bit difficult to answer a question regarding independence if 'Independent' appears in the owners title!

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Kate Richardson — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:27:14 GMT

https://catinfo.org/

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Clive Ansell — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:21:46 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Nothing for it then other than to recommend RMBs.[/quote]

Thought Mr Lonsdale, given the title of the thread, might have greeted us with his presence by now?

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:01:06 GMT

[quote user="Chris Geddes"] Would you feed a recently-weaned puppy on adult food?[/quote]

What does a recently-weaned wild dog live on?

I think some of my clients would balk at swallowing the food then vomiting it up for the puppy, but more than one has pre-chewed the food for a puppy or an elderly dog.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Anthony Todd — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:55:37 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Is there a good evidence base behind the use of prescription diets?[/quote]

Plenty! The FUS epidemic is as good as you can get!

The industry has spent the next 40?? odd years trying to fit the square peg of the convenient cereal based diet into the mouths of cats who, unless it is chemically manipulated, can't cope with it although they love it.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:43:11 GMT

[quote user="Dinu Catilina"]Why not? How much good evidence is behind life stage diets? [/quote]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Is there a good evidence base behind the use of prescription diets?[/quote]Nothing for it then other than to recommend RMBs.

RE: Pet food manufacturer buying veterinary practices ...

Clive Ansell — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 13:16:51 GMT

[quote user="Arlo Guthrie"]and pet owners really don't mind who owns the practice. [/quote]

Not so sure about that, and watch this space I would say.

I have seen a steady trickle this year of new clients or second opinions, across more than one practice, asking who owns a practice and whether or not it is owned by a large group or corporate. They have all expressed a desire to attend an independent or family owned practice. Those that have come from corporate practices, have had no issues with the veterinary treatment received (although some have had issues with admin and management), they just don't want to go to a corporate.

I think there is, and will increasingly be, a niche for a well managed and well run independent practice offering a good standard of care.