Young hare with seizures

RE: Young hare with seizures

mariette asselbergs — Sun, 24 Jun 2018 15:34:07 GMT

As for the vaccination questions: I had to go by what the clients told me, and they seemed to be genuinely of good intentions, trying to do the best by the animal. The vet they took it to (I don't know who it was) suggested vaccinating it against myx and HVD before releasing it. While asking info from the company about the age (it could be used at supposed 5 weeks of age) the company advisor told them that "it could not be released for 3 weeks because the vaccine was life". This is of course as the client told me. i was also a bit puzzled especially since as an ECC vet I hardly ever use this vaccine.

I will try to follow up what happened in the next month or so, and will report back.

Mariette

RE: Young hare with seizures

Virginia Campbell — Fri, 22 Jun 2018 08:11:42 GMT

The Irish Coursing Club may have a vet associated with them...worth trying to find out as they may know whether it is likely to be a manifestation of capture myopathy, or something else.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Marie Kubiak — Thu, 21 Jun 2018 12:35:23 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

Thanks Marie, I was hoping you would chip in with your experience. Are your suggestions the normal differential diagnosis for seizures, or have you seen seizures in rabbits or hares? (Other than in terminally ill animals).

Mariette

[/quote]

Hi Mariette,

based on domestic rabbit seizures, no hare expertise I'm afraid!

Marie

RE: Young hare with seizures

mariette asselbergs — Wed, 20 Jun 2018 06:59:45 GMT

Mariette

RE: Young hare with seizures

Marie Kubiak — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 14:08:14 GMT

?E cuniculi, toxoplasmosis, bacterial meningitis/abscessation, tapeworm cyst, congenital lesion, trauma, intoxication would all be considerations.

I would not want it released with an undetermined (potentially infectious?) condition that could be passed on to other wildlife, and also considering that it has has been deprived of normal social cues during the juvenile period. If a wildlife 'reserve' i.e. protected large area with no enforced human contact is available that would be one option. Otherwise I would also err on the side of euthanasia I'm afraid as I am not a believer in long-term close captivity of animals that are truly wild, irrespective of how humans interpret their emotions.

Marie

RE: Young hare with seizures

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 09:24:17 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]I will explain the situation[/quote]

Thank-you, and I apologise again if my previous post was too blunt.

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]when contacting the vaccin producer about age for vaccination were told that it could not be released for 3 weeks since the vaccine was a live virus.[/quote]

This is interesting. Which vaccination? I know myxo is a live virus but as far as I knew, thought it is a different virus..?? Surely if a vaccinated animal is a risk to others, that is something we'd need to be aware of? Genuinely curious...??

Unfortunately my opinion is unchanged...it should have never been picked up...or immediately returned to where it was found. (It had survived that long, afterall ...). If it really is now too accustomed to human contact for release, I do feel it should be euthanased. I'm afraid I do feel rather strongly that these animals should never be kept captive...their behaviours are too subtle for us to assess properly.

But I wish you luck dealing with it.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Iain Richards — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:19:33 GMT

Thanks Mariette, but can't help really, all the conditions I've found in hares (as few as the hairs on my head) would be fatal. So I'd put it down to stress, or one of those things. I suggest they take it to the nearest reputable wildlife rescue centre.

Even more curious why their vet advised vaccinating a wild animal.

RE: Young hare with seizures

mariette asselbergs — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 08:06:06 GMT

I will explain the situation:

I saw this animal in emergency setting. The people had picked it up in a precarious position along a busy road, taken it to their vet, were advised to vaccinate it against myxo/HVD, but when contacting the vaccin producer about age for vaccination were told that it could not be released for 3 weeks since the vaccine was a live virus. Nobody at that point had noticed that it was not a rabbit but a hare. By now, 4 weeks later the animal has been used to its people and is behaving like a pet rabbit, except it is a hare, and the people had been vaguely suspecting that for a week or so. They are still considering to let it go gradually if it wants to leave. It had one seizure with falling to the side, opistothonus, peddling and urinating but was completely normal minutes later and in consult. I have not been able to find anything about seizures in hares (or rabbits) and was hoping for medical advice.

As a side remark, I had a pet hare as a student and it was a very lovely pet to have.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Tue, 19 Jun 2018 01:29:30 GMT

I apologise Mariette, this is indeed very vetsurgeon. Sorry.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:52:33 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]Anyone can PTS a rabbit or set it free, what she was asking is what can it be and Iain provided an interesting point. Next time it might be a much loved pet rabbit.[/quote]

Two points here Neil. One, it is a hare, not a rabbit. Two, in my opinion nobody should be keeping a wild rabbit permanently either...or any other wild animal. In rabbits, PTS is usually kinder as they are so territorial that release can lead to death from fights anyway.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:48:14 GMT

I'm sorry if you feel my response was inappropriate Mariette, but please do let me explain why I commented as I did:

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]I did not ask for comments on anything else but medical expertise about seizures in rabbits or hares. [/quote]

To be fair, you asked for suggestions in this animal. Suggesting that it is not kept at all is not unreasonable.

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]Tonight I was brought a 9 week old "wild rabbit" which was actually a hare. [/quote]

This would immediately indicate that the finder doesn't have any expertise with rearing wildlife. So it isn't unreasonable to assume this animal isn't in a good rehab unit being prepared for release? If it is, I apologise for the incorrect assumption.

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]Had been found at 5 weeks of age[/quote]

As has already been said, 'being found' sounds like they just happened upon a healthy leveret? At 5 weeks old it is almost weaned.

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]been vaccinated at 5 weeks[/quote]

Against?

Anyway, at 9 weeks old it should be old enough for release, assuming the carer has minimised human contact etc?

I think investigation for this animal's seizures would be the same as in another species...starting with a biochemistry/haematology screen.

As far as whether they are actually seizures, what did they look like? Tonic -clonic or just odd behaviour?

RE: Young hare with seizures

Iain Richards — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:29:49 GMT

Mariette may have a point Neal, but we don't know. "Mother found dead, leveret nearby' would have told all, especially if it is being reared to release. I hope Mariette does re-read and lets us know.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Liz Barton — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:21:47 GMT

[quote user="Michael Woodhouse"]Liz, if you are an editor here now you really should make sure you edit the quote tabs to attribute the text to the correct person! [/quote]

Oh yeah - oops! Fixed now.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Michael Woodhouse — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 22:18:52 GMT

[quote user="Liz Barton"]There will always be a dilemma[/quote]

Liz, if you are an editor here now you really should make sure you edit the quote tabs to attribute the text to the correct person!

[quote user="Liz Barton"]There will always be a dilemma when our ethics are pricked, and you're right that we don't know the full story and have been judge and jury in the case.[/quote]

Yes, because clearly in this case it is unethical to do anything to this patient other than PTS.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Liz Barton — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:56:00 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]I am sorry, this is so typical vetsurgeon forum.[/quote]

There will always be a dilemma when our ethics are pricked, and you're right that we don't know the full story and have been judge and jury in the case.

As a fellow professional, I trust you are able to ascertain the animal's welfare, and it's easy to spot a relaxed rabbit from a stressed one in the consult room...

So going back to the OP obviously E.cuniculi would absolutely be worth treating, but I've only ever seen them with more persistent signs. All the usual TIA, SOL, toxic, idiopathic epilepsy etc. possible. In a young lagomorph with no other signs I'd just monitor for now, but if it recurs run a blood panel to check nothing metabolic.

Interestingly there are very few neurological tests which are reliable in bunnies - the patellar reflex being one of the only ones you could hang your hat on! Not much use for clinical monitoring, so I guess overall demeanour, behaviour and regular weight checks would be a good baseline.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 21:09:52 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

I am sorry, this is so typical vetsurgeon forum.

I did not ask for comments on anything else but medical expertise about seizures in rabbits or hares.

I could explain that there are no ethical issues but I am not going to.

Goodbye

[/quote]

I feel Mariette has a point here folks. It wasn't her decision to keep a 'wild rabbit'. Anyone can PTS a rabbit or set it free, what she was asking is what can it be and Iain provided an interesting point. Next time it might be a much loved pet rabbit.

Neil

RE: Young hare with seizures

Clive Ansell — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 19:43:06 GMT

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]Anybody any suggestions?[/quote]

[quote user="mariette asselbergs"]

I am sorry, this is so typical vetsurgeon forum.

I did not ask for comments on anything else but medical expertise about seizures in rabbits or hares.

[/quote]

RE: Young hare with seizures

mariette asselbergs — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 19:36:44 GMT

I am sorry, this is so typical vetsurgeon forum.

I did not ask for comments on anything else but medical expertise about seizures in rabbits or hares.

I could explain that there are no ethical issues but I am not going to.

Goodbye

RE: Young hare with seizures

Clive Ansell — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:16:23 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

PTS on welfare grounds, it's a wild animal.

[/quote]

Just let it go, it's a wild animal.

[/quote]

9 week old hare having seizures.

is it ethical to keep it as a pet?

What are the realistic chances of it being cured, or being released and having a normal life?

Is it possible it may suffer a long drawn out and possibly painful or unpleasant death.

In my opinion, I think we are duty bound to PTS

RE: Young hare with seizures

Gillian Mostyn — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 15:05:05 GMT

I agree ....it is completely unethical to keep it as a pet.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Edward Jones — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:49:25 GMT

Just let it go, it's a native wild animal.

Although I'm often unsure about how fair an uncontrolled release really is.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 14:32:50 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

PTS on welfare grounds, it's a wild animal.

[/quote]

Just let it go, it's a wild animal.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Clive Ansell — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 09:06:52 GMT

PTS on welfare grounds, it's a wild animal.

RE: Young hare with seizures

Iain Richards — Mon, 18 Jun 2018 09:02:29 GMT

Found at 5 weeks? a) how do they know b) leverets are left in the field (in forms) so what are they doing with it? Is there a back story I don't know, because this looks like someone has "rescued" through ignorance.
To answer the original question (sorry about the mini rant) your guesses are fine, I'd add in leporine dysautonomia, but I'd expect it to be dead by now. To go back to the rant - tell the "owners" it is sheer blind terror at being held in captivity.