Small animal diets

RE: Small animal diets

Iain Richards — Tue, 17 Apr 2018 13:02:54 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]our question is interesting but in my opinion illustrates well why nutrition is poorly understood[/quote]

and some interesting stuff on diet affecting the microbiome of the elderly on R4 this morning!

RE: Small animal diets

Bob Russell — Tue, 17 Apr 2018 11:10:11 GMT

I am quite happy to sell a diet range but have long since stopped pressurising people to feed any particular brand.

The main 'veterinary' food companies have shot themselves in the foot by antagonising practices with regard to the so called clinical diets. They are cheaper to buy and have delivered on-line than we pay. I still recommend them where I feel it is appropriate but gone are the days where we keep them in stock.

I will suggest possible choices that owners can get on Amazon, Fetch or anywhere else they choose.

The wide range of foods within a single companies products is a marketing issue but I do tend to agree with those that support different foods at different stages. This has to be interpreted in line with the individual's lifestyle.

I have seen average lifespan increase significantly over my veterinary career and much as I would like to claim the credit, much has to be the result in improved nutrition. A good example is an article in the VR 7th April 18 Vol 182 No 4, page 408. Evidence of longer life; a cohort of labrador retrievers.

This makes a nonsense of the claptrap spouting an increase in ill health and tumours in pets. They live longer, they get more tumours as a result. More get treated and documented etc, etc.

RE: Small animal diets

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 17 Apr 2018 10:39:17 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]thinking there maybe folk with other halves who do human nutrition.[/quote]

I haven't made my BSc up Iain

[quote user="Iain Richards"] I'm after some proper evidence for humans[/quote]

Nutritional demands are multifactorial. An example would be calorific content. Your parents may be eating the same, but I expect the quantity has altered as after all if your father was a retired lumberjack he wouldn't be burning through 5000kcals a day. That's mirrored in geriatric diets in dogs as they are affected by arthritis and so won't be walking as far will they? Therefore the calorific value will be reduced.

Your question is interesting but in my opinion illustrates well why nutrition is poorly understood. We are what we eat to a large extent and adjustments are necessary as a geriatric is not the same as a teenager is it?

Neil

RE: Small animal diets

Iain Richards — Tue, 17 Apr 2018 09:02:40 GMT

Exceptions noted, although my original post had stated to exclude clinical conditions (menopause, morbid) or the pre-weaned. I'm after some proper evidence for humans, thinking there maybe folk with other halves who do human nutrition. Any evidence for your statement David? My ageing parents eat essentially what my children ate when weaning (I have this image of having to liquidise food again in the future) and other than the comments of, "No curry for me after 6pm" and having a gaviscon chaser with every meal, I see no difference.

RE: Small animal diets

Neil Wheadon — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 23:27:28 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"] but all other animals post-weaning (including man) don't? [/quote]

Well

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15447911

Conclusion : A late age-related decrease in calcium absorption is seen in postmenopausal women in addition to the decline that occurs at menopause. This decrease could be due to a decline in either the active calcium transport or diffusion component of the calcium absorption system.

In effect to avoid osteoporosis a lady before the menopause should be eating foods rich in calcium as that's the time to build bone density

It could be argued that you need to increase calcium in your diet post menopause to achieve the same effect, that's a life stage change isn't it?

Neil Wheadon BSc (Human Nutrition)

RE: Small animal diets

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 22:53:40 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

Why do cats and dogs need life-stage diets, but all other animals post-weaning (including man) don't?

[/quote]

I'll be the discordant voice here: who says man doesn't have different diet requirements for different life stages?

[/quote] Exactly , they do , but dietary choices are left to parental discretion and then individuals and the influence of fast food outlets

RE: Small animal diets

David Mills — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 22:50:54 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

Why do cats and dogs need life-stage diets, but all other animals post-weaning (including man) don't?

[/quote]

I'll be the discordant voice here: who says man doesn't have different diet requirements for different life stages?

[/quote]

Well they do. There are very different requirements according to lifestage, such as the growing Pup or child versus the older morbid man.

Weird simplicity at work here. Please don't come back with "well I eat the same now" or "my dog only had bakers and was never at vets in his life". In reality, not eating according to life stage or life style shortens life.

RE: Small animal diets

Francisco Gomez — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 22:35:11 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]

Why do cats and dogs need life-stage diets, but all other animals post-weaning (including man) don't?

[/quote]

I'll be the discordant voice here: who says man doesn't have different diet requirements for different life stages?

RE: Small animal diets

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 21:42:53 GMT

Children and many adults eat horrendous unbalanced diets and I find it ironic how much more attention is paid to controlled and formulated diet for dogs while children eat junk . Turkey twizzlers , burgers , chicken nuggets etc. ,and other disgusting rubbish shovelled down our kids . I’m one of those gullible people who feed my Labrador on Labrador diet , she is as fit as a butchers dog, doesn’t fart much and seems satisfied. If I was skint I might go for a cheaper option but as long as there isn’t a hard sell coupled with emotional blackmail I haven’t a problem with people being sold a targeted diet for their animals.

RE: Small animal diets

David Mills — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 21:12:51 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]I'm proud to say I've never sold any dog or cat food (apart from the occasional prescription diet) in my long and largely undistinguished career[/quote]

You do realise that prescription diet is just a trademark and they're not actually prescription only? And by saying that you're essentially saying I sold for hills?

RE: Small animal diets

bob lehner — Mon, 16 Apr 2018 20:29:31 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]Why do cats and dogs need life-stage diets[/quote]

Because there are gullible numpties out there who will buy them - and dare I say it gullible/avaricious/immoral vets who will flog them.

I'm proud to say I've never sold any dog or cat food (apart from the occasional prescription diet) in my long and largely undistinguished career.

When I see e.g. 'Young adult male long-haired neutered outdoor tabby cat food' on the shelf I lose the will to live.