How low can things really go?

RE: How low can things really go?

Clive Ansell — Fri, 25 May 2018 15:35:06 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]Money, I am afraid![/quote]

Yep, unless he had a gun held to his head, or his arm twisted up behind his back, I can think of no other plausible explanation.

I just don't get it though: according to the media he made between £70k and £80K over 5 to 6 years which may sound a lot, but isn't really, at around £15k a year. One could remain professional, ethical and honest, and retain a clear conscience and earn far more than that. Madness, and he has the RCVS hurdle to clear too.

RE: How low can things really go?

Bob Russell — Fri, 25 May 2018 12:54:34 GMT

Money, I am afraid!

There are practices that are the first stop for these puppies. Once kitted up with a UK microchip and vaccination book (usually parvo only) off they go, British.

Perhaps in the old days the crooks in the profession were able to keep under the radar.

RE: How low can things really go?

Julie Innes — Fri, 25 May 2018 00:04:44 GMT

As someone who has been on the other (upsetting) side of this (raiding a puppy farm with police and SSPCA, then preparing statements, then turning up at court for a whole day twice before having to be grilled on the stand) I simply cannot understand how a member of our profession could do this. .

RE: How low can things really go?

Bob Russell — Wed, 23 May 2018 11:18:56 GMT

A fraud conviction especially relating to work performed as a veterinary surgeon should really be enough to justify being struck off the register.

Not sure that a custodial prison sentence for someone that is little more than a sidekick to the real crooks is justified but it should be remembered that this is a prison sentence just suspended. Any further issues in that time and the keys will jangle and the doors go clunk!

Saves the tax payer a small fortune in costs!

RE: How low can things really go?

Clive Ansell — Wed, 23 May 2018 11:10:26 GMT

It seems he has been spared jail; 12 months suspended sentence and 80 hours community work. I wonder if the RCVS will be just as lenient?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-44218913

RE: How low can things really go?

Bob Russell — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 13:17:31 GMT

Well that's him bu++ered then!

Good riddance!

Puts a different slant on all the 5* reviews on his website. Clearly not a shrinking violet and excellent marketing!

The cost and misery involved in the sale and sickness of these farmed puppies makes his profit no more than a drop in the ocean.

RE: How low can things really go?

Clive Ansell — Tue, 10 Apr 2018 12:56:09 GMT

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RE: How low can things really go?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:41:36 GMT

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RE: How low can things really go?

Peter Faulkner — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 14:20:47 GMT

I had a quick look at 4 Paws' Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1562559124042474/

It looks like Jodie Fairbrother changed the group name, "4 PAWS CLINIC" to "4 PAWS VETERINARY CLINIC," on 24 May 2016.

I just wondered what prompted her to change the name on this date? Was a locum employed at this time?

Looking at the price list (see below), they must have had a reasonable turnover to cover the cost of a locum (if one was employed) and drug costs. Maybe this episode could be used to argue for all practices /clinics to have a named Veterinary Surgeon with overall responsibility for the clinical side of the business, even if it is owned by a non-Vet? Otherwise, how will they prevent this from happening again?

Jodie Fairbrother
4 April 2016

Our special offer prices are:

Service Price
Bitch spay (up to 25kgs) £85
Bitch spay (25kg plus) £105

Dog castration (up to 25kgs) £65
Dog castration (25kg plus) £85

Cat castration £25
Cat spay £35
All prices include:

Premed
General anaesthetic and surgery and antibiotic injection
Onsior injection (Onsior is one of the best post operative pain relief drugs)
Onsior tablets to go home with (except the boy cats who only need an injection)
Post operative checks
Stitches out
We have not included here any additional post operative appointments or treatments because they are so very rarely required.

We are hoping very soon to be able to except The Dog Trust Neutering vouchers to help with the cost.

RE: How low can things really go?

Bob Russell — Tue, 03 Apr 2018 10:04:06 GMT

No! The RCVS is there to register veterinary practices. This place is listed on so many websites as a veterinary practice. It does not appear to be registered as such.

There is also a price list. Consultations £5, bitch spays £85 etc.

This is a place claiming to be a veterinary practice and performing acts of veterinary surgery. This is exactly what the RCVS should be dealing with. They may have to refer to other agencies for prosecution but to claim they have no responsibility is nonsense. They accepted this when they agreed to be the registering body for PSS and VMD.

https://www.vetclick.com/find-a-vet/lincolnshire/immingham/4-paws-clinic-p6382.php

http://directory.mirror.co.uk/company/832231240753152

I am surprised that there still is no statement from them.

If it is not registered with them then they should make a statement to the effect that this is not a registered veterinary practice and that investigations by the RCVS, Police and welfare organisations are ongoing.

This is to protect us as much as the general public!

RE: How low can things really go?

Richard Carter — Sat, 31 Mar 2018 13:37:21 GMT

The criminal offence is working as a vet but not registered with RCVS - anyone (RCVS, RSPCA, vet, local council, VMD, member of the public) could report it to police.

There are so many aspects of criminal activity going on here that we get upset about that is exactly what the puppy trade from Europe is about.

The RCVS to be fair, really is there to keep check on people on the register. However I do believe that they could quite legitimately have a full press release/ campaign promoting the reasons for using MRCVS, being vigilant about dodgy rescues, take a stance against the current trend of importing European dogs (after all the chief VO has advised against) so lets get some unity and try put some public education out there

RE: How low can things really go?

Bob Russell — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 13:54:18 GMT

Bit of turbo-posting but as I cannot see any evidence that the 4PAWS Veterinary Clinic is a registered veterinary practice then a holding statement to this effect would appear to be in order.

Several newspapers have headlines stating that a veterinary clinic has been raided. This alone is damaging the reputation of the profession. By the time it gets headlines about non-registered vets working in non-registered premises the damage is already done.

RE: How low can things really go?

Bob Russell — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 09:45:50 GMT

It concerns me that the RCVS may start spouting the 'we don't have any control over non-vets'.

This has the potential to be a massive scandal and there are so many aspects that could backfire on the profession.

It would be good to know if the VMD are aware and involved.

The only image I have seen shows the owner holding a syringe, about to inject(?) a puppy. The table looks disgusting but there does appear to be a bottle that looks suspiciously like Duphalyte which as far as I am aware is POM-V.

If there are dodgy non-registered 'vets' working there it would seem logical that medicine supplies would have come in with the van loads of puppies. An offence in itself!

This is not the place to make too many judgements on the specific case yet but is a good chance to make it clear that the profession is watching!

RE: How low can things really go?

J G Wray — Thu, 29 Mar 2018 07:59:55 GMT

If those at the this "clinic" were using POMs, then where did they get them from? If they got them from domestic suppliers then what checks did those suppliers make? If they got them from elsewhere then whither the policing of the obtaining and usage of medication from overseas?

If there's a MRCVS involved then we've got a problem. if not, then let's make sure the profession is insulated from others failings

RE: How low can things really go?

grumpyoldman — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:52:45 GMT

we have been having the odd OOH issue with a local kennels that also does cut price neuterings on a kitchen table, the odd PUO bleed evisceration . etc . it goes on , and no one is interested . I have reported it and left it at that ,no response from the powers that be , i think a member of the public needs to complain . People need protecting form this but they also have to have enough street credability to think why is this service so cheap ?. Are all the others just thieves as the media would suggest?. or does doing things properly just cost more?. To ask those sorts of questions a rudimentary functional CNS is required and here in lies the problem.

RE: How low can things really go?

Bob Russell — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:44:12 GMT

If your complaint has been put to the RCVS and you keep reporting problems then you have done your duty and perhaps the RCVS has failed in theirs.

I reported a certain person on the fringes of veterinary medicine because dogs were travelling long distances, were sedated with ACP without a clinical examination so a non-vet could take radiographs of the dogs. One of my patients arrived back in a collapsed state (more fool the owner). Did not hear back, not even an acknowledgement.

We are a self-regulating profession which means we should report those failing to meet certain standards so the authorities can investigate. No place for points scoring or grudges and we should consider carefully before reporting but where welfare of patients or people are at stake then action is appropriate.

RE: How low can things really go?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 28 Mar 2018 17:35:53 GMT

The owner of a local clinic is presently in Crown Court accused of assisting illegal puppy importers and issuing thousands of false vaccine certificates to ill and dying puppies. Sentencing is due this week, it is difficult to see how he will survive it and be able to continue practicing.