Certificate study

RE: Certificate study

Michael Woodhouse — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:16:40 GMT

I'm a little surprised how long some of you are spending on study, as I found I spent vastly less time on things than suggested. When I did my A module it was worth 150 points and 150 notional study hours, and I did the work one weekend when my wife was on a hen weekend in London, 10 essays and a reflective piece.

I also did virtually all my cert/diploma work in my own time despite owning the practice. I'd be very reluctant offering in work study time to a vet who was already part time. I'm quite happy vets using quiet time in the day to do CPD/cert study but the work has to come first. I can't have one member of staff sat at their desk while the rest of us run around like idiots. That's just a recipe for resentment. We work on the same rule with our SVN - some weeks she gets lots done and some week no college work whatsoever.

There is or ought to be the element that you learn to manage your time properly to do the work you need to for the certificates. I really don't think it should be to the practice (who are already investing thousands in course fees) to give you protected time in the day to study - unless you want a drop in salary to compensate (we can pay our SVN very little as an apprentice and this balances the paid time at college and reflects its a training role)?

RE: Certificate study

Rach — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 22:02:49 GMT

Could you manage to do something that is mutually beneficial - e.g. a vet meeting where you share the up to date knowledge on a topic or a case review? That way you are consolidating what you are learning or preparing your casebook but the practice feels they are directly gaining something too?

RE: Certificate study

KathW — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 18:31:43 GMT

I did my CertAVP with Liverpool and negotiated 1 CPD off day per month ( whilst doing a four month module) after the B modules. It's certainly takes more than the 4-6 hours a week that they suggest. I didn't get the day every month- sometimes it wasn't possible when vets were on holiday back to back etc.

I wanted to do the certificate and gave up quite a few leisure pursuits etc. in the three years I took to do it. On balance it was hard work but worth it.

My reasoning in asking for the days was if someone else did a certificate where monthly or bi monthly lectures took place they'd get a day or two every month ( or two) to attend the lectures. Liverpool study and work is done at home and yes, I studied late in the evening, at weekends even on holiday occasionally.

We normally get 3-5 CPD days a year so this was an increase on that and I did appreciate having a day to get stuck in to a case report etc ( I don't get a day off normally Monday- Friday).

Maybe you could negotiate some CPD days for study ( I didn't get days for other CPD whilst do the certificate).

RE: Certificate study

Julie Innes — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:42:14 GMT

Genuine question: will you be more valuable to the practice once qualified? Will you be staying with them? Will you be expecting a higher wage?

If your certificate will ultimately benefit you more than them, they don't need to accommodate you so much, and you should find the time. If the practice will benefit (eg charging more for consultations within your speciality), then they should be more accommodating. Worth chatting to your boss?

RE: Certificate study

David Mills — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 14:04:47 GMT

Other than cpd days I wouldn't expect any time off for certificate work. I wouldn't have even thought to ask.

RE: Certificate study

Kate Dawes — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 13:05:27 GMT

Thanks for your comments

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Afterall, 6-8 hours a week is a significant amount of time for any vet to be off clinical duties. [/quote]

I didn't mean to give the impression that I waas expecting it all to be done in work time at all. I have always expected to be doing the majority of the work in my own time, (as I have done with the last 2 C modules) I just wasn't sure if I was being unreasonable in asking for some time at work too (maybe an hour a week?). I have made several requests but they haven't been acted upon. I appreciate I should have tried to agree something more definite at the start.

[quote user="Judith Archbold"]I was given 10 CPD days a year for course attendance or just sitting in a library writing up cases etc.[/quote] 10 days a year sounds a lot and would be great - I'd be quite pleased just with one day! (and I am 'earning' my certificate too!)

[quote user="James Dunne"]I presume you are doing the certificate because you want to do it - if you see it as 'work' then it will not be a very enjoyable experience.[/quote]

I appreciate that I chose to do it and am really enjoying studying. It's just the volume of it that is taking it's toll.

[quote user="James Dunne"]One consideration would be that you may have a CPD entitlement - you could use a number of days from it to study, or ask for the equivalent in time off if it didn't put the practice out too much. 5 days CPD is 40 hours[/quote]

That is probably one of the issues - we don't have a set CPD budget/ number of days. The practice is paying for the module, which I'm very grateful for.

RE: Certificate study

James Dunne — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:18:30 GMT

There is probably no black-and-white answer! I was an assistant when I did my old-style, end-loaded certificate [working full-time plus weekends and OOH and had young children also]. Coming up to the exams one of the partners covered some evening clinics for me so I could go home earlier and study, but I did most of it in my own time. Nothing formal was set up and it worked out well. The certificate programmes are now set up to be more achievable and they have a much more organised structure. If you are doing an hour a day on average, you should be able to find this time at home. I presume you are doing the certificate because you want to do it - if you see it as 'work' then it will not be a very enjoyable experience. Both my wife and I are studying for part time post graduate programmes at present [masters and doctorate respectively] and evenings/weekends are when the work gets done. Trying to do something every day is a non-runner when you're finished being the taxi service for the kids, so some evenings are top-heavy with study and some aren't. Remember that your employer is paying you to do a job and while we would all like our employees to have a sense of contentment and be fulfilled in their roles, none of us can afford to have our income-generating employees taking significant time out without some sort of give. I would generally encourage my veterinary staff to pursue further education and would give leeway with finishing times/ feedback on ideas for coursework etc but equally would not want to feel that I am paying for someone to complete a qualification! One consideration would be that you may have a CPD entitlement - you could use a number of days from it to study, or ask for the equivalent in time off if it didn't put the practice out too much. 5 days CPD is 40 hours, so some imagination in that regard might work for you, see how it goes.

RE: Certificate study

Judith Archbold — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 12:17:13 GMT

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but when I studied for my certificate I often worked until 11pm at my desk, having done a full day’s work : and on-call duties. As did most of my friends over the years who “ earned “ their certificates. I was given 10 CPD days a year for course attendance or just sitting in a library writing up cases etc.

RE: Certificate study

Gillian Mostyn — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 11:49:09 GMT

I would be happy to allow some study time, but would expect the employee to come to me with a realistic rota/plan as to how this could be achieved. If it impacts on the working time of any other employees, I would expect you to sort that out and get it agreed first. These days, with recruitment being difficult, I suspect most employers will be trying be accommodating whenever they are able.

If you are unable to see how you can make it work under your own current part-time hours, then your boss is not going to be able to sort it out either! Afterall, 6-8 hours a week is a significant amount of time for any vet to be off clinical duties.

To be honest I, and many others, are already used to this system...nurses courses demand at least 3 hours of study time in practice every week. Therefore, I would hope that a compromise can be reached. It just needs both parties to be flexible.