Client Expectation

RE: Client Expectation

Anthony Todd — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 11:56:53 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]"Now why do you think that?"[/quote]

And I tried it many times, even said it was nonsense, but the inevitable reply was "The breeder told me" and that was "end of!!"

RE: Client Expectation

Lucy Fleming — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 11:18:48 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]As an owner of a cat I wouldn't do any the above. I don't think it's fair to blame owners (of whom many have far busier lives than me) for not doing.[/quote] To be honest, neither have I...and I don't blame them. But equally, there's plenty of information out there about how to train cats (or dogs) to accept a variety of medical/ grooming procedures. In all cases it will take a bit of work, in some cases it will be impossible no matter how much effort the owner puts in. The ones that I personally struggle with are the ones that declare every suggested intervention impossible...but still expect you to magically fix their pet anyway.

Ironically, I find often the ones for whom it actually is the most difficult to get to the vets/ afford a medication/ medicate the pet at very precise times etc are the most likely to comply...

RE: Client Expectation

Gillian Mostyn — Sun, 25 Mar 2018 09:02:45 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

As an owner of a cat I wouldn't do any the above. I don't think it's fair to blame owners (of whom many have far busier lives than me) for not doing.

A different angle. How many working people can get to a vets during the day? As in, if you needed to go to the vets at short notice (as a vet) would you be able to?

[/quote]

Yes, of course.

A different angle. If you, and every adult in your household, is unable to get to a vet between the hours of 8.30 and 6.30 and very occasionally at short notice, should you own a pet?

RE: Client Expectation

David Mills — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 23:21:47 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]

[quote user="David Mills"]

Do people here own animals?

Especially cats. I would leave it til it was absolutely essential before I bundled it in a cage and took it to the vets. And I'm a single man with a car.

[/quote]

https://icatcare.org/advice/how-guides/how-train-your-cat-use-cat-carrier

https://icatcare.org/advice/how-guides/how-make-sure-your-cat-comfortable-travelling

[/quote]

As an owner of a cat I wouldn't do any the above. I don't think it's fair to blame owners (of whom many have far busier lives than me) for not doing.

A different angle. How many working people can get to a vets during the day? As in, if you needed to go to the vets at short notice (as a vet) would you be able to?

RE: Client Expectation

Lucy Fleming — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 22:46:28 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

Do people here own animals?

Especially cats. I would leave it til it was absolutely essential before I bundled it in a cage and took it to the vets. And I'm a single man with a car.

[/quote]

https://icatcare.org/advice/how-guides/how-train-your-cat-use-cat-carrier

https://icatcare.org/advice/how-guides/how-make-sure-your-cat-comfortable-travelling

RE: Client Expectation

David Mills — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 20:31:17 GMT

Do people here own animals?

Especially cats. I would leave it til it was absolutely essential before I bundled it in a cage and took it to the vets. And I'm a single man with a car.

RE: Client Expectation

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 19:50:15 GMT

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]Are they issued for a specific loctaion? [/quote]

They are specific to an individual.

RE: Client Expectation

J G Wray — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 18:55:20 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]You all haven't had to deal with breeder dogmatics [?new word] which are the most cast-iron, inflexible, unbloody indisputable, truths ever uttered!!![/quote]

No they're not.

All you have to do is ask a disarming question when, in the middle of a diatribe, they draw breath, e.g.

"Now why do you think that?"

Try it

RE: Client Expectation

Anthony Todd — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 18:19:01 GMT

A reasoned sensible post

[quote user="Lucy Fleming"]and ask us more challenging questions, and I for one actually relish those conversations, most of the time.[/quote]

Me too, even though the conversations weren't backed by the client with 80x10 to-the-6 references; only a few.

BUT

You all haven't had to deal with breeder dogmatics [?new word] which are the most cast-iron, inflexible, unbloody indisputable, truths ever uttered!!!

RE: Client Expectation

Lucy Fleming — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:45:28 GMT

I think client expectations both have and haven't changed, but available medicine definitely has. Julie's example with the hyperthyroid cat is a good one, but there are other situations where there are now options beyond just 'cutting it out' or 'giving it a jab of steroids', from different surgical options, to availability of (relatively) well tolerated chemo drugs, to a much wider variety of anti-pruritic medications...

I think many people are more likely to educate themselves or read around the topic, and ask us more challenging questions, and I for one actually relish those conversations, most of the time. I find the owners that are unwilling to do anything for their pet that involves even the slightest change to their routine more frustrating (I'm not talking huge changes, I appreciate having to manifestly alter something like your work routine isn't feasible. I once knew someone with a small diabetic dog that wouldn't change their routine of massive long walks with the poor little one on the weekend, compared to their weekly trot around the block. Or make any changes to make the feeding regime more regular. And then couldn't understand why the diabetes was poorly controlled)

...But I digress. I suspect most clients really want their pet's problem "fixed" at minimal expense, no effort, and within the ten minute booster appointment that they waited for before addressing the problem. I also suspect 'twas ever thus, and 'twill ever be so.... Unfortunately, for my own satisfaction as much as anything else, I am not always able to comply with their expectations!

RE: Client Expectation

Lucy Fleming — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 17:20:25 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]PS I've never understood why a locum doesn't provide their own radiation badge.[/quote]

Presumably it's then impossible to know which practice was responsible for an excessive reading, prompting an investigation in all? Are they issued for a specific loctaion? (I have no idea, our nurses sort all of that, I just put it on when told)

RE: Client Expectation

Niall Taylor — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 16:22:31 GMT

Sigh...

That's more like it!

Niall

RE: Client Expectation

Anthony Todd — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 15:55:42 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]I do think that the RCVS has something to answer for in the past couple of decades by insisting we must allay the public's fears, though it is not couched like that.[/quote]

I would imagine clients, when asked to sign that they realise and accept that a drug is being used, although not licensed for that species or condition, would be apprehensive and google it ASAP.

Imagine going into a pub for a pint and being given a form to sign stating that you understand alcohol can be dangerous and addictive and you accept the risk.

I imagine that often the vet reinforces this fear by reciting the warning or caveats.

Surely vets are responsible enough to judge when warnings need to be voiced or issued and not commanded to do so?

RE: Client Expectation

George Cooper — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 15:37:28 GMT

I think, reflecting on the posts from Julie and Gillian and others that, actually, we are all taking of exactly the same stuff!

The one corner occupants avow that "it has all changed, got worse, is more challenging" and then go on to say that they do as they've always done, though in more depth, and disabuse the client or spend longer going through the detail and so on, as opposed to caving in before the onslaught of the clients demands (expectation).

In the other corner, me, who is saying that it was always like this, though probably more intense and frequent where I do what I always did and deal with it - as you do too!!

Maybe the "difference" lies in not letting it get to me, though I don't see much evidence of angst, really from those who say things have changed. Given that the participants in this thread and this site have got a goodly mileage on the clock when compared with another FB page where the vets represented seem to be a good deal less experienced albeit with a number of more experienced popping in from time to time it isn't really surprising that we just get on with it.

I do think that the RCVS has something to answer for in the past couple of decades by insisting we must allay the public's fears, though it is not couched like that. It does seem less now, but at one time the emphasis appeared to move away from the animal and onto "the public" and by placing them so far in front has created this apparition of demanding malevolence that is creating a real worry in vets, and, dare I say it, a degree of resentment.

RE: Client Expectation

Anthony Todd — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 15:30:34 GMT

HYPERtheticals

50 QUESTIONS FOR INSANE CONVERSATIONS

By CHUCK KLOSTERMAN

Do I get another one please? [star that is]

RE: Client Expectation

Niall Taylor — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 15:20:04 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]I've given you one star for coining "hyperthetical"[/quote]

And I've given you five stars because I love 'hyperthetical' and intend to use it myself - it's a full-on eggcorn in my humble opinion!

Niall

P.S. But, from the look of your average number of stars it looks like it wasn't just Evelyn who marked you down - one star person HAS STRUCK AGAIN... DUN-DUN-DUUUUN!!!

RE: Client Expectation

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 14:40:32 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Now I'll incite all the hyperthetical disadvantages, for sure, and one star, of course.[/quote]

I've given you one star for coining "hyperthetical".

PS I've never understood why a locum doesn't provide their own radiation badge.

RE: Client Expectation

Anthony Todd — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 14:21:24 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Why would anyone worry about the blow back from a FNA diagnosis, I wonder?

Just warn a client that it is a cheap, quick and easy thing to do but on occasions it does not represent the lump. In other words warn them that like a lot of tests they sometimes lie!

[/quote]

Would be unarguable, quicker [prognosticly] and cheaper if you just cut it out, nice wide margins, just in case, change gloves after touching perimeter tissue, and job done.

Do all the grim warnings when you get an unarguable histological diagnosis!

You are going to have to remove it anyway!

Now I'll incite all the hyperthetical disadvantages, for sure, and one star, of course.

RE: Client Expectation

Niall Taylor — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 12:40:58 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]I agree , it is those clients we waste our time and energy dwelling on and not the appreciative ones, and the good clients sometimes get overlooked and “shortchanged” while we try to appease the small number of over demanding ones. We just have to deal with it because society is not going to change back to how it was and there are still a large number of really good reasonable clients out there , just the odd rednecked turkey who is best forgotten.[/quote]

I'm not convinced clients are any 'worse' or more demanding than they used to be really. I can remember quite a few 'demanding' clients back in the eighties, both farm and small animal. The problem is how easy it is for vets to communicate about such clients, to chew over and micro-analyse each such case, thereby magnifying the problem (sorry, 'issue') way, way out of proportion. It's no wonder some folks have gone hyper-cautious and defensive - social meeja has made us lose our sense of proportion, not to say direction.

Niall

RE: Client Expectation

Bob Russell — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:17:55 GMT

Why would anyone worry about the blow back from a FNA diagnosis, I wonder?

Just warn a client that it is a cheap, quick and easy thing to do but on occasions it does not represent the lump. In other words warn them that like a lot of tests they sometimes lie!

RE: Client Expectation

Anthony Dennison — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 10:01:09 GMT

[quote user="Julie Innes"]

Actual message received on my Facebook Page:

" Hi, do you do free check up or offer payment plan? I want my boy tested for diabetes due to the symptoms he's had lately I'm quite concerned"

That's the expectation of some clients. This is what I want, and I want it for nothing.

Just saying

[/quote]

Oh, we get this all the time. And when these clients ring up they always sound the same and you know what's coming. Always talk in high detail about the problem their pet has, says how worried they are in between each symptom, repeated use of the phrase 'thing is right...' and then at the end they quickly say ' but I'm on benefits so you'll do it at a discount/do it for free right?'

Benefit scrounging and working the system has become a profession. Generally people are trying to get as much as they can for as little as possible, and it's always the fault of the people in a position of power/responsibility, like politicians, doctors, vets, police etc.

RE: Client Expectation

Richard Carter — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:36:26 GMT

having now had to resort to locums to keep the practice going, I am quite shocked and saddened to see the difference in quality of vets out there and how some will flatly refuse to: do a fna and look under a microscope; examine a urine sediment, use an ultrasound (don't know the machine), take an xray (because they don't have a badge because they are the locum) despite being told by my RPA no-one needs a badge anymore as the last 10 years everyone has hardly managed to get a reading....

the excuse - I am not qualified to look and diagnose tumour cells so I won't risk my livelihood or risk being struck off!!! Who is teaching this cr.p??? I don't need a definitive dx - I need to know if we are looking at a MCT or we have a ruptured spleen or infectious vs haemorrhagic cystitis and I really would expect all vets to either know how to do this or to get out the large number of reference books we have in the library and to do some CPD???

So what do these people do to keep stimulated in the job because sending everything off to a path lab may get you a better answer if you can wait a few days or is it genuine fear in which case, what is the point?

Perhaps the RCVS and VDS and others should start a desensitising campaign - no-one is going to get into trouble for misdiagnosing an in-house FNA but perhaps you should be if you cannot look at a smear and diagnose severe anaemia or an inflammatory response??

RE: Client Expectation

J G Wray — Sat, 24 Mar 2018 08:23:51 GMT

For those who don't understand "mojo", it has a number of definitions, my favourite being a quality which attracts people and fills you with energy. Perfume and make-up work for some. For others, naming no names, it might be "Old Spice" and a couple of strong coffees.

Given the worries about client expectations and the drain it seems to create my diagnosis is, well, loss of mojo or Mojo. It's a short and somewhat paranoid step to the state where you believe clients are actually stealing your mojo.

RE: Client Expectation

Evelyn Barbour-Hill — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 18:25:20 GMT

Yeah, I've just been back to Ann Cole's recording and I don't like it. It's not Ann's singing, she's terrific, it's the sound of "The Suburbans and Orchestra."

RE: Client Expectation

J G Wray — Fri, 23 Mar 2018 16:59:55 GMT

[quote user="Evelyn Barbour-Hill"]Are you a Muddy Waters, Etta James, Johnny Winter or Elvis Presley type person?[/quote]

Now look it's well known that Muddy Waters version is a cover of Ann Cole's

"Got My Mojo Working" is a blues song written by Preston "Red" Foster and first recorded by Ann Cole in 1956. Muddy Waters popularized it in 1957 and the song was a feature of his performances throughout his career."