Contingency plan.

RE: Contingency plan.

Clive Ansell — Wed, 07 Mar 2018 12:30:46 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]As an aside we got stuck abroad in Egypt when the Icelandic volcano went up. We'd booked a package and there is a duty of care to get you back to your departure point. (London) The company we were with (Exodus) were very good. However people who'd booked through Expedia (internet based) were pretty much hung out to dry, they had no local representative and they were intermittently available on the phone. (they may still be there ) You get what you pay for[/quote]

I found out the hard way with that one. I once missed a flight connection, due to 3-4 hour delays getting through security and customs formalities in New York on the way to Huayhuash, North Peru. It was about 15 years ago, with Exodus too, but because I had booked the flights independently, I was on my own. Exodus were very helpful, but I had to bear the costs (hotels in New York and Lima, and an 8 hour taxi ride to Huaraz) myself and later reclaim from the airline (Continental)

Lesson learned: 1) book a complete package including flights if possible 2) don't transit the USA if possible.

RE: Contingency plan.

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 07 Mar 2018 10:29:56 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]Some folk may use a debit card because there is often a credit card surcharge, but I don't as it offers less protection.[/quote]

Not since January, companies can no longer surcharge for credit cards, so if you want full coverage go ATOL and pay with a credit card.

As an aside we got stuck abroad in Egypt when the Icelandic volcano went up. We'd booked a package and there is a duty of care to get you back to your departure point. (London) The company we were with (Exodus) were very good. However people who'd booked through Expedia (internet based) were pretty much hung out to dry, they had no local representative and they were intermittently available on the phone. (they may still be there ) You get what you pay for

Neil

RE: Contingency plan.

Clive Ansell — Wed, 07 Mar 2018 10:01:12 GMT

[quote user="Wren"]

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]The only come back may be if you bought the flight with a credit card.[/quote]

This is Holiday 101, surely? I'm pretty close to the bottom of the 'financial expert' ladder, but even I always purchase flights and accommodation with a credit card, every time.

[/quote]

Some folk may use a debit card because there is often a credit card surcharge, but I don't as it offers less protection.

The last flights I booked, with BA, I was redirected to the American Express website during the actual booking process, whereby I opened an account for a new card and was given a £50 sweetener - they're even paying you to potentially get into debt now, unbelievable!

I almost always book travel insurance with the BMC (British Mountaineering Council) with an annual policy. It costs a bit more, but gives a good level of protection including flight cancellation cover.

RE: Contingency plan.

Clive Ansell — Wed, 07 Mar 2018 09:54:22 GMT

[quote user="David Catlow"]

An interesting question. A number of practices over the years have struggled financially. They generally either close their doors or sell and get swallowed up by neighbouring practices, often at quite low valuations with little or no publicity. Thats how a significant number of practices have grown.

If a large group were to go into liquidation then clearly there would be a lot more noise about it, but market forces and availability of local services to supply the local need would presumably prevail.

[/quote]

I guess so, but if a large group or corporation owning many or all practices in an area went belly up that process would happen a whole lot faster and could leave clients and their animals high and dry without local cover. Hypothetical I know, but a possibility?

The reason for my OP is that it was a question from a client. She had registered as a new client, not because she was unhappy with her last practice, but because she specifically wanted to be with an a small independent practice. I had to inform her, "well, actually, this one is part of a large group too, even though it appears as an independent" and that I only know of one small independent practice locally

RE: Contingency plan.

Wren — Wed, 07 Mar 2018 08:41:45 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]The only come back may be if you bought the flight with a credit card.[/quote]

This is Holiday 101, surely? I'm pretty close to the bottom of the 'financial expert' ladder, but even I always purchase flights and accommodation with a credit card, every time.

RE: Contingency plan.

David Catlow — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 20:57:47 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]

With the rapid takeover and buying up of smaller independent practice by large groups and corporations, and the news last week that yet more high street brands (Maplins and Toys-R-us) have gone into administration, and others may be heading that way (Mothercare, House of Frazer); what would happen if one or more of these large veterinary empire builders goes belly up?

Does the profession, or the RCVS, have a contingency plan for rescuing the failed practices, for ensuring continuity of care for patients (akin to a back up plan for stranded travellers in the event of an airline going bust), providing information for abandoned clients, and for accessing clinical histories, blood results, radiographs etc?

Just a thought?

[/quote]

RE: Contingency plan.

Iain Richards — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 20:07:19 GMT

[quote user="J G Wray"]As an independent I would not take on the redundant vets. I would not go for a client grab. I would look to cream off the clients first then see how the land lies. If a practice failed there would be a reason and lack of profitability is always gonna be number one. So why take on that burden?[/quote]

And you say there's no art to being a vet? Nice one Machiavelli!

RE: Contingency plan.

Bob Russell — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 18:00:24 GMT

I have started to go through the process of changing banks because RBS have become actively obstructive and it turns out they want to be shot of as many England and Wales small small to medium enterprises (EU requirement).

The deals are a lot more expensive than they were in the past and it seems something I have to live with. Thankfully the sums I am borrowing/moving are fairly small and it is a reorganisation issue rather than new borrowing. With my mortgage just under £12K none of it is a worry, more irritating.

Scale this up to industrial levels that many corporates must have and you have a head ache.

Add a chain of pet shops facing competition from Amazon and Ebay, even Poundstretcher and life has the potential to get more complicated.

Despite this they still seem hell bent on continuing with expansion.

There are some real battles ahead!

RE: Contingency plan.

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 17:43:02 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"]I guess most folk would have adequate travel insurance though? ------ wouldn't they??[/quote]

Nope

Look at the fine print and I'll use AVIVA, formerly Norwich Union

You are not covered for

Claims resulting from any tour operator, travel agent, airline or other service provider becoming insolvent and not being able or willing to carry out any part of their duty to you.

Without creating a tangent and boring everyone to death

A package company offering flights has to give you a contract that includes ATOL cover. Therefore if the airline (Monarch for example) goes bust, you will get a flight back

If you do a split package where you buy the flight from say Easy Jet and a Land Only deal where you buy a holiday without flights you probably aren't covered. The only come back may be if you bought the flight with a credit card.

Neil

PS CTC Cycling Holidays are ABTA, ABTOT and ATOL bonded unlike some other long haul providers

RE: Contingency plan.

J G Wray — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 17:36:38 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]I'm curious, why should the profession have a contingency plan? If I was an independent in the same town, it would be open doors time, take on the redundant vets and go from there.[/quote]

If I were an independent....but you're not. You gave that opportunity up.

As an independent I would not take on the redundant vets. I would not go for a client grab. I would look to cream off the clients first then see how the land lies. If a practice failed there would be a reason and lack of profitability is always gonna be number one. So why take on that burden?

RE: Contingency plan.

Clive Ansell — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 17:27:05 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]In short, there isn't an industry led rescue scheme for vets[/quote]

I was thinking more of a back up plan or rescue plan for clients and their animals for continuity of care, not one for vets.

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]In a survey I did a few years ago, less than half the cycling holidays taken with flights were protected in this way, so the analogy doesn't work[/quote]

I guess most folk would have adequate travel insurance though? ------ wouldn't they??

RE: Contingency plan.

Clive Ansell — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 17:08:18 GMT

[quote user="Iain Richards"]If I was an independent in the same town, it would be open doors time, [/quote]

What would happen though if, say for example company X, had bought all the practices in a town or small group of towns, and then went bust. Where would that leave clients and patients?

[quote user="Iain Richards"]The release of notes is an interesting one though. If there is a vet on the board - they'd have to ensure it.[/quote]

I have had first hand experience of this; one of the chains closed a branch close to where I live, about 10 years ago. They did so at short notice, and clients were just left without. Local practices I work for were unable to get clinical notes, which in most cases didn't really matter, but there were a few complicated and involved cases where bloods, radiographs etc, had to be repeated. A few post op complications too.

RE: Contingency plan.

Neil Wheadon — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 16:55:24 GMT

[quote user="Clive Ansell"](akin to a back up plan for stranded travellers in the event of an airline going bust)[/quote]

That's ATOL and for every holiday including flights (package) the consumer pays £2.50 to fund that. (buried in the small print)

In a survey I did a few years ago, less than half the cycling holidays taken with flights were protected in this way, so the analogy doesn't work

In short, there isn't an industry led rescue scheme for vets

Neil

RE: Contingency plan.

Iain Richards — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 16:48:44 GMT

I'm curious, why should the profession have a contingency plan? If I was an independent in the same town, it would be open doors time, take on the redundant vets and go from there.

The release of notes is an interesting one though. If there is a vet on the board - they'd have to ensure it. If no vet, tricky. Although; the client can insist on the notes and can pass them to the vet. In the event of collapse the receiver will be able to comply.

RE: Contingency plan.

Cool — Tue, 06 Mar 2018 16:42:52 GMT

I do not think the RCVS will have plans of rescuing any of the practices should a corporate fail. I dont think the RCVS or the profession will be in a position to rescue any of them. I cant think of who the RCVS or the profession will turn to. I think the vets in the failed practices will have to find a way of providing care for their patients in the short term should this happen. Very interesting thought Clive.