Thinking of selling

RE: Thinking of selling

George Cooper — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 17:30:32 GMT

[quote user="Clare Tapsfield-Wright"]

Clare’s post reminded me of another little bit of cod philosophy!

Ouch, bit harsh George , it was only an opinion based on my experience.

[/quote]

no no no, Clare, you misread my meaning!!!! It wasn’t at all WHAT you wrote in words, more that your post triggered my own tangential thoughts! It comes from having a grasshopper’s brain in my skull. Oh heaven forbid that I be harsh! (Other than to the BLUDDY Scottish Rugby kickers and dozers.......then I will be as harsh as, - as harsh as.... grit in their Vaseline.)

RE: Thinking of selling

Michael Woodhouse — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 17:29:43 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]Very often we are reminded by the RCVS that we should offer the best quality of service without attempting to magically guess how much your client is willing to pay for the service.[/quote]

What? RCVS have clearly left me off their Christmas card list because they've not reminded me of anything like that, ever.

RE: Thinking of selling

niall morton — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 17:28:40 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

[quote user="niall morton"]i struggle to believe an independent would only offer one third of what a corporate would offer. [/quote]

Why? The offer is going to be based on what profit can be achieved ..and, because of a corporate's ability to reduce overheads and drug costs, combined with the current market share grab, it is understandable. I didn't get a chance to challenge the theory as we didn't ever advertise the sale. However, for a private buyer, it would have been one hell of a debt.. I suspect debt repayments would be as much as the profit level!

[/quote]

drug costs are reducible but considering they only account for 15-25% of the business costs even if you can reduce by a good amount it’s not going to make that big a difference.

Current market grab is worth a premium.

i could see a practice being worth up to 50% more to a corporate because they reduce costs and grow quickly but 300% difference ifs crazy. That’s the difference between 333k and 1million. I just can’t see that kind of premium. 650k to 1million..... maybe.

maybe I’m naive and as an independent buyer about 5 years ago maybe I overpaid for mine but I still made it work.

RE: Thinking of selling

An On MRCVS — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:53:00 GMT

I would love it if someone who worked for me showed an interest in buying the practice! I would feel better about helping someone else achieve their goal, but I just feel that no-one seems to want this any more, certainly not any of my current staff.

There are other local larger practices that I suppose might be interested. But if I approach them, I would guess the veterinary world is so small that there is no way it would stay a secret.

Like I said, I would really prefer if it didn't have to be a secret. That is something I will really struggle with.

RE: Thinking of selling

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:16:47 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]As far as giving you a month's notice[/quote]

Exactly - as it should be. I have bought an ultrasound machine for someone who wanted to do imaging qualifications...only for her to leave 1 month later. I've been told repeatedly by a colleague that they have no intention of leaving to own a practice...only for them to leave to buy a partnership elsewhere. Employees have enrolled for qualifications which they have failed to complete, but which cost me lots of money. Nurses have undertaken training only to leave soon after qualifying. Etc etc. I bear no grudges...everyone has to do what is right for them... but neither do I feel any guilt about doing what is right for me. Afterall, staff members' jobs are secure and hours and wage unchanged ... If they choose not to accept the change in ownership and instead leave, then so be it.

RE: Thinking of selling

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 16:08:36 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

I know what you mean, but, afterall, the practice belongs to the owner, to do with it as they choose. If the staff member got a better offer elsewhere, how far would their loyalty go?

[/quote]

As far as giving you a month's notice.

RE: Thinking of selling

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 14:18:23 GMT

[quote user="niall morton"]i struggle to believe an independent would only offer one third of what a corporate would offer. [/quote]

RE: Thinking of selling

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 13:48:13 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Did any of them actually discuss this hope with their employer?

[/quote]

Yep.

RE: Thinking of selling

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 13:29:05 GMT

[quote user="Francisco Gomez"]Some of the people I've worked with, I've known them to be disgruntled and unhappy about this. They built their careers with the prospect of buying in the practice of their dreams, for them to be told it was sold behind their backs once the deal was over.[/quote]

Did any of them actually discuss this hope with their employer?

I know what you mean, but, afterall, the practice belongs to the owner, to do with it as they choose. If the staff member got a better offer elsewhere, how far would their loyalty go?

RE: Thinking of selling

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 13:26:07 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]I'm not sure that this approach is legal under TUPE rules. Whilst there is no defined minimum period, staff must be consulted in a time frame such that they can consult representatives beforehand.[/quote]

You are absolutely right...the large staff meeting was to discuss the acquisition..they were all given letters regarding TUPE and were asked if the wanted representation etc. The actual purchase happened 2 weeks later.

RE: Thinking of selling

An On MRCVS — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 12:27:28 GMT

The staff are a real issue for me. Although I hate being the boss, I think I am probably a good boss, as I put their happiness in front of my own, because I want a happy team and I hate conflict. Consequently I feel terrible about wanting out and I hate the idea of deceiving them for months on end. I am not naturally a secretive person, and I don't know how I would do this, it feels like such a betrayal.

And this is ironically another reason for wanting out! I m starting to really struggle with the pressure of being boss.

RE: Thinking of selling

niall morton — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 11:14:47 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

Was it accurate?

Yes and no. There were two values...one for a private sale, and another (3 times higher) if a corporate was interested in buying. The second number was exactly the same as the corporate offered!

[/quote]

i struggle to believe an independent would only offer one third of what a corporate would offer.

RE: Thinking of selling

Francisco Gomez — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 10:55:10 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

The corporate we sold to were very careful and the staff knew nothing until acquisition day...when we had a meeting and everyone is told at once.

[/quote]

Very often we are reminded by the RCVS that we should offer the best quality of service without attempting to magically guess how much your client is willing to pay for the service.

Some of the people I've worked with, I've known them to be disgruntled and unhappy about this. They built their careers with the prospect of buying in the practice of their dreams, for them to be told it was sold behind their backs once the deal was over.

I know, that if this was said before hand, other problems would have arised, and that even knowing, they would have probably not managed to buy in anyway. So I'm not pretending to say that I hold the moral high ground here, I'm just telling you how many felt.

RE: Thinking of selling

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 10:35:16 GMT

Clare’s post reminded me of another little bit of cod philosophy!

Ouch, bit harsh George , it was only an opinion based on my experience.

RE: Thinking of selling

Edward Jones — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 09:57:29 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]

The corporate we sold to were very careful and the staff knew nothing until acquisition day...when we had a meeting and everyone is told at once.

[/quote]

I'm not sure that this approach is legal under TUPE rules. Whilst there is no defined minimum period, staff must be consulted in a time frame such that they can consult representatives beforehand.

RE: Thinking of selling

Gillian Mostyn — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 07:49:27 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]From what I read and understand the very worst bit of being The Boss is the bit that involves anything to do with Staff[/quote]

Yup

[quote user="George Cooper"]You cannot ever hope to change anyone in any way - the only thing you CAN change is your reaction to them, because the only thing you have the power to control or change is - yourself.[/quote]

Yup. And if you find that you can't .... maybe being a boss just isn't for you. I am awful at saying no. Doesn't make for good management.

RE: Thinking of selling

George Cooper — Sat, 03 Feb 2018 03:52:45 GMT

Clare’s post reminded me of another little bit of cod philosophy!

From what I read and understand the very worst bit of being The Boss is the bit that involves anything to do with Staff, employees, workers, shirkers, and certainly it was that in my experience of 40 years as either a partner, or a solo boss. That was despite my realising it and setting about approaching any HR issues as an “opportunity”, and being relentlessly upbeat about anything to do with staff - and that included devoting whatever time was needed to mentor, support, cuss, listen......it was still the single biggest grief-spinner in running the place. And so - here follows the philosophical nugget!

You cannot ever hope to change anyone in any way - the only thing you CAN change is your reaction to them, because the only thing you have the power to control or change is - yourself.

RE: Thinking of selling

Clare Tapsfield-Wright — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 20:30:16 GMT

Before you leap , just be sure to think back to why you made the decision to have your own practice in the first place. Its true that a partnership is like a marriage but it does give you someone else to share the responsibility and to go completely off radar when off duty or on holiday.

You have to delegate when you’re an owner and you have to accept that at any one time a piece of equipment will be broken, a client will complain, someone will be off sick, or pregnant , or complaining, or injured skiing, or miserable, falling out with another member of staff . This is normal and won’t change, it’s not your fault , you can’t make it perfect. Your clients in the main like you and your employees who appreciate you won’t tell you but the ones who are demanding will carry on demanding no matter what you do.

But you will be doing things your way, the practice is yours and so is your future. You could make yourself delegate the bits you don’t enjoy and be less at the beck and call of everyone , don’t check in when you’re off and they will cope, but if you always respond when a case is coming back in on your day off or a minor glitch happens they will carry on asking you. You have to delegate and accept the fact that if someone doesnt do it quite like you would it’s ok. If you do all that you can have a break from it all and still enjoy it when you get back without being consumed by it. You might still want to sell but this applies to anyone in charge of a practice , owner or manager, you’ve got to trust others to carry the can sometimes.

RE: Thinking of selling

Anthony Todd — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 19:04:33 GMT

[quote user="An On MRCVS"]George, that sounds awful! I feel so mean for keeping this from my (very nice) staff, but I guess you do have to look out for number one, don't you [/quote]

That's just one of the things you should have in a "tailored" [or any!!] sales agreement and most, if not all, buyers realise good staff are hard to find let alone keep.

RE: Thinking of selling

An On MRCVS — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 18:37:20 GMT

[quote user="Thomas Johnson"]A friend of mine who is a GP (human!) has bought in to partnerships in 2 practices he has worked at, and on both occasions has sold his share of the partnership when he has moved on to a new job a few years later.[/quote]

A partnership was another thing I thought of, but most of what I have read on here have made me very very nervous of them!

RE: Thinking of selling

An On MRCVS — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 18:36:01 GMT

[quote user="George Cooper"]Keeping things very close to your chest is paramount. I didn’t, and was open throughout the proceedings and then on the day that the sale was due to be clinched, locally, for a greater price than the valuation, the LA team appeared one by one and resigned, reducing the business to half size. [/quote]

George, that sounds awful! I feel so mean for keeping this from my (very nice) staff, but I guess you do have to look out for number one, don't you

RE: Thinking of selling

An On MRCVS — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 18:34:28 GMT

[quote user="Anthony Todd"]Sale of a practice is a recurrent thread on here so I won't start again....[/quote]

I have had a look at one or two threads, but I'll look again, see what I've missed! Thanks

RE: Thinking of selling

George Cooper — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 18:28:48 GMT

Keeping things very close to your chest is paramount. I didn’t, and was open throughout the proceedings and then on the day that the sale was due to be clinched, locally, for a greater price than the valuation, the LA team appeared one by one and resigned, reducing the business to half size. It cancelled the sale, and there were untold repercussions that followed which I will not go into here, and there were other factors at play in their decision -,which was to move 100 yards down the road and link up with a practice 15 miles away, hoping to then attract the LA clients over. We did salvage something, but it was not a pleasant experience.

That said, I do, actually understand their motivation in that they were trying to look after their own interests. It was all nearly 20 years ago and before the corporate invasion.

Nowadays I work in a jobshare with the practice owner. He finds that the reduced “take” and increased time available to him is completely fine, knowing that we think alike in day to day practice terms. He will never go back to full time. And from my point of view, not having any staff issues to deal with or all the other managemental bean counting jobs has made life so much more enjoyable while still enjoying emptying impacted anal glands and helping clients with their decisions.

RE: Thinking of selling

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 17:52:59 GMT

[quote user="Gillian Mostyn"]Sounds familiar. Some family members were supportive, and completely understood. Others not so much so - especially those who had helped us the most with babysitting etc. They felt we were 'throwing all our hard work away'. I guess, in their eyes, we did. But other people change jobs and careers without so much fuss...why not a vet? [/quote]

A friend of mine who is a GP (human!) has bought in to partnerships in 2 practices he has worked at, and on both occasions has sold his share of the partnership when he has moved on to a new job a few years later. This is something that I've not seen happen in the veterinary world. When he did it the first time I thought it was a bit of an unusual thing to do, but now I think why not? He bought in to the partnership and had a stake in the business and influence on the way it was run while he was there, and then sold that control back to the other partners when he left.

In my first job one of the partners had left the partnership several years before to work as a professional photographer, I got the impression that there were still people within the practice who were upset that he had done it, I could never understand why. Having said that, when I left my leaving present was a framed copy of one of his photographs!

RE: Thinking of selling

Anthony Todd — Fri, 02 Feb 2018 17:25:32 GMT

Sale of a practice is a recurrent thread on here so I won't start again....

There are a number of ways of saving and/or generating considerably more funds or revenue that haven't even been mentioned yet, or you could scroll back to the last time the thread was discussed at length, together with options in the actual sale process.

PM me if you want, by all means.