How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Richard Carter — Mon, 05 Feb 2018 11:56:19 GMT

so what (if any) are these 'complications' everyone is afraid of? Ask anyone been on the Indian or African spaying street dog sessions and it is the GA not the surgery that has the most risk but that is due to unknown disease and poor body reserves than being pregnant or in season.

Most of our bitches in UK will be good condition, overweight and disease free with good anaesthetics and monitoring taking place.

Yes having enlarged mammaries doesn't help but not a contra-indication.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Bob Russell — Mon, 05 Feb 2018 11:04:17 GMT

We go for 'half way between seasons' ie 3 months as a rule of thumb. I am not sure there is a lot of statistical justification for this but you can bet your bottom dollar that if you do spay during a season and there are complications then Prof Google will be consulted and it will all be your fault!

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

George Cooper — Thu, 01 Feb 2018 00:34:53 GMT

Ive always considered that the act of speying a bitch is extremely important for the 5 usual benefits quoted, and because of that I will, if expedient, spey her at any stage of the cycle. The age old umbrella time was to use the season as the trigger to remind the client to get it booked in, and do her a month after that. If however there is a "risk" of the client NOT making the booking, then I'd get on with it asap. I don't routinely operate during a season - only when necessary and have never encountered any untoward issues with so doing.

One of the most persuasive reasons for speying is based upon a survey that I believe originated from the PFMA survey of 77000 neutered bitches which found that, statistically, a speyed bitch extends her life expectancy by two years. (Compare that to the tom cat which, having had his suitcase unpacked, sees a doubling of life expectancy from 7 to 14 years!). The only problem with "quoting" this is that I've not been able to find that original reference, and have a (slight) worry that it is apocryphal.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 23:54:04 GMT

I'm sure it's the case in cats, but I'm not convinced its any harder in bitches.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

David Mills — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 23:31:30 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

I find in spay seasons messier, there is more blood from the skin, incision and SQ fat, , and the vessels are larger, and the uterus is more friable, and you have to be a lot more careful

Then, i always was a worrier

[/quote]

It would be very interesting to do a blinded study to see whether it was true.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 23:26:43 GMT

I find in spay seasons messier, there is more blood from the skin, incision and SQ fat, , and the vessels are larger, and the uterus is more friable, and you have to be a lot more careful

Then, i always was a worrier

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

David Mills — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 23:12:22 GMT

[quote user="Stephen Courtney"]

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

prefer not to spay in season or f/p but will do at any time - unwanted matings etc. Apart from a slightly more oozing skin, not sure why there is this urban myth about not spaying in season. You would happily do a caesarian in a far more risky ga and VWD really is very rare.

[/quote]

This. There's all sorts of urban myths about spaying in season.

The uterus/tissue isn't any more friable.

Never seen lactation post in-season spay (n=100s).

It's one of those university theories, file along catgut being awful etc.

[/quote]

I agree totally, including about catgut, which has become a devils tool based on ivory tower sneers which don't take into account sensible use - and i have spayed bitches in season when it seemed appropriate, but I would much rather wait till the season is over, then do it! Much less messy, and much easier.

[/quote]

See I don't think the surgery is any different. I get the theory (never seen any milk after) about lactation but not the surgical "risk". Possibly immune.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 23:06:27 GMT

[quote user="David Mills"]

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

[/quote]

This. There's all sorts of urban myths about spaying in season.

The uterus/tissue isn't any more friable.

Never seen lactation post in-season spay (n=100s).

It's one of those university theories, file along catgut being awful etc.

[/quote]

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

David Mills — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 22:07:09 GMT

[quote user="Richard Carter"]

[/quote]

This. There's all sorts of urban myths about spaying in season.

The uterus/tissue isn't any more friable.

Never seen lactation post in-season spay (n=100s).

It's one of those university theories, file along catgut being awful etc.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Stephen Courtney — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 21:54:17 GMT

I prefer 3 months after the season assuming the mammaries are empty.

However it is perfectly OK to spay a bitch as soon as the season is over, eg if there has been a misalliance. this has no adverse consequences, and I'd rather do that than give alizin.

this has caused issues with some of my colleagues when the surgery I expected to be booked for me has ended up on someone else's list and they have interfered by 'discussing' non existent issues with the client...

The BSAVA repro manual has good information on this, anyone unsure should take a look.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

rhmrcvs — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 18:45:43 GMT

We advise 2-3 months after end of season.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 18:37:17 GMT

[quote user="Edward Jones"]A few cases seem to be refractory to cabergoline. I've never seen it, but a couple of people here have come across it.[/quote]

I've seen a couple of entire bitches with false pregnancies that don't respond to cabergoline and drag on for a long time, so perhaps it's a case of correlation not being the same as causation with those that have a difficult to resolve false pregnancy after they are spayed. Also bitches that are spayed at the same time as a caesarian generally suckle the pups for the appropriate time and then the milk dries up as normal.

But generally there's no problem with waiting until 3 months after the season so that's what I do.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Christina Smith — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 18:10:05 GMT

I would assume those were self-sucklers . I don't think cabergoline will work when there is positive feedack. IM

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Edward Jones — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 17:55:50 GMT

[quote user="GrooveJet"]I've spayed a few over the years that were "in milk", before it became a taboo, and I can't say it ever caused any noticeable issues. Still not entirely sure what the fuss is all about... Anyone care to elucidate?[/quote]

A few cases seem to be refractory to cabergoline. I've never seen it, but a couple of people here have come across it.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Julie Innes — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 17:35:04 GMT

prefer to do in middle (ie 3 months), but will do from 6 weeks post season at a push

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Miriam Lodewyks — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 17:26:44 GMT

We recommend 3-5 months also.

Prefer not to spay when in season as I think it adds a small but unnecessary element of risk, though sometimes needs must.

I've spayed a few over the years that were "in milk", before it became a taboo, and I can't say it ever caused any noticeable issues. Still not entirely sure what the fuss is all about... Anyone care to elucidate?

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Richard Carter — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 13:06:45 GMT

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Lucy Fleming — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 12:10:18 GMT

What Niall said (as we work in the same place!) but in my first job as a new grad we would spay anything from 3 weeks post season (generally very poor uptake of neutering, lots of wandering dogs, puppies being given to neighbours at 5 weeks of age and getting parvo - we would take any opportunity to neuter that we could get!) and no issues noted (in fact, I seem to see more presenting for spay with pseudopregnancy at 3 months post oestrus than 3 weeks post oestrus)

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 12:06:44 GMT

We advise 3 months but I'll spay any bitch any day you like. I've done many in the few weeks after oestrus that have been mated by accident and none of them have gone into pseudopregnancy. Even if they did, a bit of cabergoline and it goes away.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Thomas Johnson — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 11:14:39 GMT

[quote user="Niall Taylor"]We say 3 to 5 months after the end of a season (assuming they are cycling every 6 months and there's no false pregnancy).[/quote]

We say 3-5 months as well, my understanding is that you need to wait until after the luteal phase as otherwise the sudden drop in progesterone when you remove the ovaries can trigger a false pregnancy.

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Gillian Mostyn — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 10:58:11 GMT

3 -5 months

RE: How long after a season ends to spay a bitch?

Niall Taylor — Wed, 31 Jan 2018 10:55:29 GMT

We say 3 to 5 months after the end of a season (assuming they are cycling every 6 months and there's no false pregnancy).

Niall