Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Edward Jones — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:29:54 GMT

Thanks for the heads-up. I'll add Healthy Pets Insurance to the list of companies to avoid.

Edit: Thinking about it, all it really needs is itemising the dispensing fee separately to avoid the total going over 100% mark-up. Although there's nothing inherently wrong with a markup over 100%, is there? Especially on these very low value tablets.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:54:45 GMT

[quote user="robloxley"]I don't suppose if you stripped out the dispensing fee separately the insurance company would be inclined to pay it![/quote]Our dispensing fee is £8.50 first time and £5.70 for repeats (both include VAT), these are shown as separate items on the invoice. In addition we mark up POMs at 120% for first dispensing but only 50% for ongoing medication if they buy 3 months at a time. No insurance company has yet refused to pay the full amount.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Bob Russell — Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:28:12 GMT

I consider the dispensing fee to cover other things as well. All the costs associated with running a dispensary!

Includes waste, out of date medicines and those thrown away because of the rules on opened vials/bottles.

Nit picking is unlikely to save them money and I do wonder how much of a clue any employed VN will have regarding running a business. Of course it is not really their problem and they will do what they are told to.

It amazes me how many companies contact us for a full medical history despite the fact they get sent one with the claim.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Kate Richardson — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 22:18:45 GMT

Is that really cost effective and efficient use of a salaried staff member to quibble over £18? Beggars belief. Prob cost them more to calculate and communicate this than it has saved them

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Beats — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:53:15 GMT

[quote user="Dave Cumber"]We will only pay up to a maximum of 100% mark up on the manufacturer’s price of veterinary medicines.[/quote]

Define: "manufacturer's price"?

Is this an RRP? (clearly not intended to be if a 100% "mark-up" is allowed)

Is this some standard price that the manufacturer sells the medicine at either directly to consumer or third-party?

If what this really means is "list-price-before-discount at NVS wholesalers, final figure assessed inclusive of any dispensing fees", then unfortunately that is not what has so far been stated and I'm not sure that "manufacturer's price" in the terms, if not expanded, can be reasonably taken to mean that.

Might be worth defining "mark-up" also.

I would always make the point to state a normal retail "mark-up-on-sale" % rather than "mark-up-on-cost" % if asked what I did as standard starting point.

[If I sell £75 worth of drugs, and they cost me £50, then that is a 33% mark-up-on-sale, sounds much better than 50% mark-up-on-cost!]

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Rob Loxley — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 19:40:10 GMT

[quote user="Dave Cumber"]Define excessive.[/quote]

Someone being harsh might suggest that with a 100% markup on list price, plus a dispensing fee, not forgetting your wholesaler discount (10-12%?) and rebate from the drug company (pred 1mg so another 25%+), you're not doing badly
I suspect the issue is that you are bundling 3.60 of dispensing fee in which is pushing your effective price for a cheap drug over list+100%. I don't suppose if you stripped out the dispensing fee separately the insurance company would be inclined to pay it!

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Joyce Whitehead — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 18:05:34 GMT

I think your dispensing fee seems fine. Ours is similar. Have I got it right that because your mark up was too high they haven’t paid for any of the prednisolone? Surely they should pay up to their limit?

We have found that animal friends have deducted something from our taking blood price, as they say it is over their limit (can’t remember figures now).

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Dave Cumber — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 18:02:21 GMT

Thanks for all the feedback.

Just received this reply from Healthy Pets.

"For future reference we use information from the wholesaler NVS to calculate the normal and customary charges for medication. We calculate the price per tablet based on the normal charge, plus 20% VAT and 100% mark up. We use this information to calculate the maximum that we would pay for the number of tablets you dispensed. Finally we calculate the difference between the 100% mark up cost and the cost charged by yourselves."

I have looked through the small print on the policy documents and there is no mention of dispensing fees. I will take this up with them tomorrow. Whilst our mark up on list price is 85%, we also add a dispensing fee of £3.00 plus VAT. This has taken it over the 100% markup stated in the policy document. I justify this fee to cover the label, label printer, tablet bottle and the time taken for a member of staff to put on a pair of gloves and count out 100 Prednisolone tablets. This does not seem unreasonable to me.

The small print

"Every claim will be reviewed by a vet nurse and compared to charges for the same or similar Treatment to ensure that the Treatment and Veterinary Fees are reasonable, necessary, essential and not excessive.

We will only pay up to a maximum of 100% mark up on the manufacturer’s price of veterinary medicines."

Define excessive.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Andrew Henfrey — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 17:08:09 GMT

You also need to know if their calculations are up to 100% markup plus VAT. This was an issue a couple of years ago with PDSA Pet Insurance underwritten by Zenith. Healthy Pets policy is not clear about VAT.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Bob Russell — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 17:02:17 GMT

Nope! They thought 15 minutes was a long time (of course there is a charge per minute involved!).

Not sure who is advising them that a retained testicle or two can be whipped out in the flash of eye. I thought ten minutes was pretty OK.!

Edit: got this foul cough/virus and it seems to affect the quality of my typing at the moment!

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:34:01 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Just had a grumbling phone call from a charity that rehomed a patient. They considered 15 minutes surgery to remove two retained testicles excessive!

Is anybody reasonable any more?

[/quote]I presume they're not grumbling about how long it actually took but your charge per minute surgery time. If we knew that we pass judgement on if that is excessive. I charge abdominal cryptorchids slightly more than a cat spay as it can be technically more difficult especially if there is an extended game of spot the ball.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Bob Russell — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 15:12:04 GMT

Just had a grumbling phone call from a charity that rehomed a patient. They considered 15 minutes surgery to remove two retained testicles excessive!

Is anybody reasonable any more?

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Will McMullan — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 11:58:19 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]This was swiftly dropped after realising the were shooting themselves in the foot. [/quote]

How so? Vets increasing their other charges to make up for clients buying internet drugs? Or advising clients to avoid them?

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:29:56 GMT

Just another insurance company to advise people to avoid.

[quote user="Bob Russell"]

Starting to creep in but I suspect they are using 'internet' pricing as their guide.

[/quote]There was one insurance company (IIRC More Than) which advised its customers to buy medication off the internet as it wouldn't refund the price the vet charged. This was swiftly dropped after realising the were shooting themselves in the foot.

There is however a risk of some vets overcharging for medication and killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Bob Russell — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 09:08:25 GMT

Starting to creep in but I suspect they are using 'internet' pricing as their guide.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Julie Innes — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 08:53:26 GMT

I've never heard of this either! There's always some new way of getting out of paying from them, isn't there?!

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Rob Loxley — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 08:49:19 GMT

[quote user="Dave Cumber"]Does anyone know if any other insurance company has similar wording in the policy documents?[/quote]

Yes, ones that cap markup. As they include dispensing fee in the markup, for cheap tablets such as pred/frusemide, then despite the % markup being under 100 the total added by the practice to the cost of the tablets can exceed 100%.
They probably are ones that won't pay for a prescription if the owner wanted to buy the tablets as cheaply as possible online!

Also insurance companies that have caps on lab fees e.g. histology.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Dave Cumber — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 00:31:37 GMT

Good question. I have absolutely no idea. If I get a reply from them, I will post details on here.

RE: Healthy Pets Insurance-warning.

Sammy82 — Tue, 16 Jan 2018 00:27:10 GMT

Never heard anything like this, but how do they even know your mark up as surely cost price does vary depending on supplier? Or do they just go by cheapest internet price at the time?