Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:26:12 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"][quote user="Neil Wheadon"]With lots of diseases out there, why is this vaccination so prevalent? [/quote]Because kennels are scared of litigation if a litigious customer's dog gets kennel cough, so they insist on the vaccine to cover their own arses.[/quote]

Love it, and you're probably right, guess I'll give them a call to do it themselves when the next muzzled akita rocks up....

Neil

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Martin Atkinson — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:22:11 GMT

[quote user="Neil Wheadon"]With lots of diseases out there, why is this vaccination so prevalent? [/quote]Because kennels are scared of litigation if a litigious customer's dog gets kennel cough, so they insist on the vaccine to cover their own arses.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Neil Wheadon — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 15:04:16 GMT

With lots of diseases out there, why is this vaccination so prevalent?

It puts some dogs of vets for life

A colleague was bitten through the nail the other day

It's not fatal

Sure it's contagious.........

Neil

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Michael Woodhouse — Wed, 10 Jan 2018 01:56:19 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]It goes up the nose because it is supposed to form an aerosol to be inhaled and get to the the bit where its needed - the trachea.[/quote]

How sure are you? As I recall it's a temperature mutant so can only multiply in the cooler nasal turbinates, not down in the trachea. Kennel cough thought to be air born so will hit the nose first.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Martin Atkinson — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 09:13:39 GMT

[quote user="Tim Browning"]The local effect can't be that significant or the data sheet would insist you put it up both nostrils, which previous intra nasals did I think, not Nobivac. Otherwise would get one runny nostril![/quote]When did you last see a case of kennel cough which had a runny nose? It goes up the nose because it is supposed to form an aerosol to be inhaled and get to the the bit where its needed - the trachea.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Julie Innes — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 09:04:45 GMT

I was also under the impression that not very much needed to actually stay in the nostril- the vast majority of my patients sneeze half of it back out!

Interesting to see other people have thought of the eye route and have actually tried it. I was always worried it could irritate the eye. Given how fluorescein always seen to appear at the nostril shortly after going in the eye, I would suspect a fair amount would reach the eye.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Tim Browning — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 08:55:44 GMT

The local effect can't be that significant or the data sheet would insist you put it up both nostrils, which previous intra nasals did I think, not Nobivac. Otherwise would get one runny nostril!

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Thomas Johnson — Sat, 06 Jan 2018 09:24:58 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I also have understood that only a fraction of the 1ml dose is required to get to the right place. It is a live vaccine that will multiply under favourable conditions.[/quote]

I also had understood that it's still effective if the full dose hasn't gone down the nose, and we use Nobivac KC, it's only 0.4ml which makes life easier.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Bob Russell — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:51:21 GMT

On the few occasions I have done this there has been little reaction. One patient used to plaster our walls with poo when we tried to give the vaccine intranasally. Over the years she has mellowed and we have come to a satisfactory relationship that does not result in the walls being decorated.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:21:23 GMT

[quote user="Bob Russell"]I don't think anyone is suggesting it is a preferable way to give the KC vaccine but there are a few dogs that would otherwise require sedation for the drops.[/quote]I would imagine that most dogs that are impossible to introduce a nasal vaccine will resent it being instilled into their eyes as well. I can always manage dogs which are just wriggly after a struggle, it is the aggressive ones that are the problem and they are not likely to let me get near their eyes either.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Bob Russell — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 10:39:06 GMT

It was suggested as acceptable via a rep a number of years ago. Most dogs will allow a fairly slow dribble into the eye(s).

I don't think anyone is suggesting it is a preferable way to give the KC vaccine but there are a few dogs that would otherwise require sedation for the drops.

I also have understood that only a fraction of the 1ml dose is required to get to the right place. It is a live vaccine that will multiply under favourable conditions.

I would discuss the issues with an owner before using the eye as a route for administration. It does allow me to sign the certificate and the dog to go into kennels.

I do not believe the vaccine is good enough or useful enough to justify sedation!!

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Thomas Johnson — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 09:43:18 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]Hmmm...an interesting thought except given how more than 2 drops of eye drops overflows out of the eye anyway I can't see how 1ml of vaccine can be instilled even if you use both eyes.[/quote]

I would be concerned by that as well, I suspect most of it would over-flow and very little would stay in the eye.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Martin Atkinson — Fri, 05 Jan 2018 09:19:18 GMT

[quote user="bob lehner"]But it could rapidly travel down the naso-lacrimal duct and end up in the nostril where it is needed ???? [/quote]Hmmm...an interesting thought except given how more than 2 drops of eye drops overflows out of the eye anyway I can't see how 1ml of vaccine can be instilled even if you use both eyes.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

bob lehner — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 22:21:17 GMT

[quote user="Martin Atkinson"]

[quote user="Julie Innes"]I often wondered if the nasal vaccine could be administered as an eye drop[/quote]The logic of intranasal administration AFAIA is that the vaccine provides local immunity at the point of entry of the pathogen. I'm not familiar with the exact immunological mode of action so can't comment further but on that basis is would seem logical that intraocular would be no more effective than a SC injection.

[/quote]

But it could rapidly travel down the naso-lacrimal duct and end up in the nostril where it is needed ????

Never thought of it before, but seems like it might possibly be a good idea - providing it didn't do anything nasty in the eye.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Martin Atkinson — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 10:06:23 GMT

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Miriam Lodewyks — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 09:56:12 GMT

I asked the Nobivac rep this once and she was flabbergasted that some dogs will not allow intranasal administration of this vaccine. She had never heard of this being an issue!

Clearly never worked in practice.

In South Africa it is injected, but there is little demand for it and I have no info as to it's efficacy.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Julie Innes — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 08:54:52 GMT

Wish there was! As an aside, I often wondered if the nasal vaccine could be administered as an eye drop (like we do with DDAVP), which I feel dogs would tolerate far better, but could never get the reps to find out for me! Obviously it's not licensed this way, so I have never used it like this, but would be easier, I think!

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Pollyanna — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 13:29:59 GMT

https://www.zoetisus.com/products/dogs/bronchicine/index.aspx

Not available in the UK unfortunately

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Robin Grimmer — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 13:08:17 GMT

God I hate giving kennel cough vaccines!

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Gillian Mostyn — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 12:12:36 GMT

[quote user="Linda Filshie"]As an aside I recently read about a case on DVM360 where the intranasal vaccine was accidentally administered sub-cutaneously and the dog developed a severe hepatopathy. [/quote]

I assume that must be a rare complication though. A colleague mixed up the syringes and did this...the drug company involved assured us there was no risk to the dog.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Bob Russell — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 11:24:40 GMT

Some time, in the dim and distant past there was Intrac II (from memory). Was on the market for a very short time.

Think it was Bordetella but presumably was not efficient and was withdrawn. Perhaps someone at MSD might know a bit more about the history.

Answer is therefore yes for parainfluenza but no to Bordetella unless someone knows differently.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Martin Atkinson — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 11:08:46 GMT

As Linda says there are parainfluenza vaccines variable and are usually incorporated into the standard vaccine protocol. As I understand things both Bordatella and Pi are required to give a rip-roaring kennel cough and it may well be that when they are protected with a Pi vaccine the clinical symptoms due to Bordatella alone are less severe.

In cases where I have found it impossible to give a dog the intranasal vaccine I have offered sedation or given the owner the vaccine to take home to administer it themselves but of course I cannot then sign the vaccine certificate.

RE: Is there an injectable KC vacc available in UK?

Linda Filshie — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 10:52:34 GMT

Nobivac (MSD) do Pi (canine parainfluenza) as a standalone or with DHP, ie DHPPi. Not hugely effective from what I understand, and doesn't cover the bordatella part.

As an aside I recently read about a case on DVM360 where the intranasal vaccine was accidentally administered sub-cutaneously and the dog developed a severe hepatopathy.